40K Editiorial: You Don’t Know Better

[Lucidum]

Was he forced to play you because of a campaign or something?

Warhammer 40,000 League, tournament-style competition with each opponent pretty much randomly assigned each game.

[Auticus]

I can see why that would annoy him.

But on the same token if things like that are going to annoy him, he should not play in tournament-style events.

[thanoson]

Well, it's that or don't play. Semi hard to get a game some times as they seem to have limited space because of tourny's and stuff. It's ok, I've played him since, but he knows my views on this. I just feel self restraint should also be a part of list making. Everyone can make a min/max uber list and win with it. My challenge is, can people win without using meta deathstar list?

[silashand]

This. And no amount of passive-aggressive blogging will change that fact.

Yep. And for the record, I know many players who probably *do* know better what is appropriate to a fun game. Certainly moreso than designers who are paid to write rules designed to sell models first and foremost.

Sure I do.

/end

Yup. I know what I find fun and showing up to face 5 knights in a casual pick up game ain't it regardless how much self-indulgent whining someone puts into a blog to justify what they want to play.

[Auticus]

Well, it's that or don't play. Semi hard to get a game some times as they seem to have limited space because of tourny's and stuff. It's ok, I've played him since, but he knows my views on this. I just feel self restraint should also be a part of list making. Everyone can make a min/max uber list and win with it. My challenge is, can people win without using meta deathstar list?

Can people win without using meta deathstar list? - Yes they can, but it takes more effort and is a lot harder to do when the easier list will give you the same results for a tenth of the effort.

I understand your frustration. I lived through a time where that was my area as well - you were either playing in tournament mode or you didn't get a game. Thats why I started running campaign events. You may be surprised how many people in your area would be interested in that kind of thing, where barring tournament style lists and playing with more "normal" lists is something people want to do.

It just takes someone to start that up.

[Charon]

Yes they can, but it takes more effort and is a lot harder to do when the easier list will give you the same results for a tenth of the effort.

As if that makes a difference.
People WILL find a way to complain how your composition was unfair because of reasons.

Everyone can make a min/max uber list and win with it.

Obviously this is not the case, as not everyone finishes in first place despite bringing min/max tournament lists.

I just feel self restraint should also be a part of list making.

Self restraint is subjective. Also fun is subjective.
Some people play units and styles because they LIKE them.
Also this opens up another can of worms.
"Do not use Serpents, they are OP!" "Oh I would really love to use my other dedicated transport... oh wait... "
And I honestly had games where people complained that Warwalkers are broken...

playing with more "normal" lists

And who decides what is "normal"? What happens when one army has inherently stronger "normal" lists than another? What do you think the players will complain about next when they find out that one armys "fluff army" is able to table other "fluff armies" by turn 2?

[Auticus]

As if that makes a difference.
People WILL find a way to complain how your composition was unfair because of reasons.

Right. But I wasn't commenting on people complaining about comp. I was answering a question "can people win without resorting to creating a meta powerlist". To which my answer is yes, but why would you when you can create a list that is 10x easier to use. Playing on "easy mode" is more desirable unless you are actively looking for a challenge - which as told by most tournament roster sheets that are put on display for the public eye is a very small percentage of the competitive community.

I'll raise my hand here and say when I was tournament gaming I sought after easy-mode too.

[thanoson]

When your troop choices are 2 muculoid spores, I think that falls into "not normal" list.

[Erik Setzer]

Yup. I know what I find fun and showing up to face 5 knights in a casual pick up game ain't it regardless how much self-indulgent whining someone puts into a blog to justify what they want to play.

Nope. I bring one, and it's bad enough for people to complain, so I don't use it as often as I'd prefer to use a $140 model that I put a good bit of effort into. If I bring more than one, people just won't play. Heck, bring a Knight and pack of Thunderwolf Cavalry in the same game, and people start getting antsy. but at least TWC might fall to the weight of hundreds of bolter or shoota rounds. Each Knight takes a good bit of dedicated anti-tank weaponry to take out (and then you hope it's not in the middle of your army when it goes nova). There's not that many armies out there that people have sitting around with that kind of anti-tank weaponry.

[Charon]

Right. But I wasn't commenting on people complaining about comp. I was answering a question "can people win without resorting to creating a meta powerlist". To which my answer is yes, but why would you when you can create a list that is 10x easier to use. Playing on "easy mode" is more desirable unless you are actively looking for a challenge - which as told by most tournament roster sheets that are put on display for the public eye is a very small percentage of the competitive community.

That changes absolutely nothing.
"can people win without resorting to creating a meta powerlist" sure they can. If the other guy is either a complete beginner or he is not using a power list himself.
That still brings you down to the same basics. And without even wanting to do it, you create a new meta with new (but different) powerlists and another codex powerlevel.

I still do not know where your attitude that bringing a powerlist to fight other powerlists is easy mode comes from. Thats like saying "a powerlist is an easy way to top 5" when you see that place 6 - 30 are also powerlists.