salamander space marines rules

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

i recently sat down with friends from my game club and decided to make a rules set for the salamander space marines. i wanted you guys to check them out and give me and hints or things to change. so without further time wasteing.....

Salamander codex ruff rules


Chapter Master Tu'Shaun Regent of Prometheus.............260pts

WS BS S T W I A LD Sv+
6 5 5 5 4 4 4 10 2+
Unit composition-1(unique)

Unit type-infantry

Wargear - Artificer Armour, Master Crafted Thunder Hammer, Master Crafted Combi-storm bolter (flamer), Shir'end Hide.

Special Rules - and they shall know no fear, combat tactics, chapter tactics, Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Orbital Bombardment, Regent of Prometheus, Might of the flame

Options - replace artificer armour for Vulcan’s mantle... 15pts

Master craftsman - one terminator squad may twin link their storm bolters. In addition, all flamers, heavy flamers, flamestorm cannons, meltas and multi-meltas are twin linked and all thunder hammers count as master crafted.

Might of the Flame - As a master craftsman, Tu'Shauns combi-flamer may be fired more than once per battle

Shir’end - He wears the hide of Shir'end, the salamander he slew as an initiate. the hide grants him a 3+invulnerable save. He may wear it on his terminator armour.

Regent of Prometheus - Tu'Shaun may be accompanied to battle by an honour guard

Vulkans mantle - This is a suit of terminator armour made during the Istavan massacre which Vulkan never used, while wearing this suit it grants Tu'Shaun the Feel No Pain speacial rule.


Regent of Prometheus Honor Guard Squad

Terminator Assault Squad.........170pts

WS BS S T W I A LD Sv+
Terminator 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 2+
Terminator sergeant 4 4 4 4 1 4 2 10 2+
Chapter Champion 5 4 4 4 2 4 3 10 2+
Unit composition - 1 sergeant, 1 chapter champion, 3 honor guard

Unit type - infantry

Wargear – terminator armour, thunder hammer and storm shield, storm bolter (sergeant) drake hide (4+ invulnerable save for champion if he has no storm shield)

Special rules – and they shall know no fear, combat tactics, honor or death (champion only)

Dedicated transport – may take a landraider as dedicated transport

Options – chapter champion may replace storm shield for a second thunder hammer… 20pts chapter champion may take digital lasers… 10pts one honor guard may carry the chapter standard instead of a storm shield… 25pts

If Tu’Shaun is in the honor guard squad and the land raider chosen is a redeemer class, the flamestorm cannons count as defensive weapons for the purpose of moving and shooting



Chief Librarian Vel’cona…. 210pts

WS BS S T W I A LD Sv+
5 4 4 4 2 4 2 10 2+
unit composition – 1 (unique)
unit type – infantry

Wargear – terminator armour, storm bolter, psychic hood, book of Prometheus, frag + krak grenades, staff of the Ancients

Special rules – and they shall know no fear, independent character, master psyker, sight

Book of Prometheus – this book allows Vel’cona to use one of the three salamander psychic powers each turn along with any two others from codex: space marines (page57)

Staff of the Ancients – this is a master crafted force weapon

Master Psyker – Vel’cona knows all the psychic powers in codex: space marines

Sight – this helps Vel’cona to guide in any deep striking units/drop pods. Roll two D6 for scatter as usual and then half the distance. May be used once per player turn but when used Vel’cona may only use one psychic attack that turn.

Salamander Psychic Powers

Fury of the Ancients – psychic shooting attack, only usable by Epistolary Librarians and Vel’cona.
Range S AP type
Template 6 3 assault 2

Ancient Drake – the Librarian projects the image of a giant fire-breathing salamander into the minds of his foes. This power is used at the start of the end of the librarians movement phase. All enemy units in 12in of the Librarian must take a leadership/morale check.

Flaming Bullet – the librarian fires a fast flaming psychic bullet at the enemy that no armour can survive. To use this psychic power it must be the start of the Librarians shooting phase. If the psychic test is past, the Librarian may not shoot or assault after this power is used. The enemy model automatically takes a wound, which causes instant death regardless of toughness with no armour saves allowed. An invulnerable save may be used against this.


Units from codex space marines Restrictions or changes

Tactical squads – may take a second flamer instead of special weapon…10pts may take a heavy flamer as special weapon… 25pts

Assault Terminators – unit entry from codex: space marines but only cost 150pts

All thunder hammers in any unit entry (not including scouts) are 10pts for IC and 15pts for normal sergeants or marines.

Devastator squads may have up to 4 flamers for 10pts each or 4 meltaguns for 15pts each.

Land speeder squadrons, bike squadrons, attack bike squad, land speeder storm and scout bikers are limited to 0-1 per unit.

so leave messeges and tell me what you think
cheers

[Master Bryss]

On Tu'Shan:


As I said to the guy doing Raven Guard, use an easier format for your stats, as it's a little hard to read, especially in the case of the Terminators, for example Tu'Shan (there defenitely isn't another u in his name):

WS:6// BS:5 //S:5// T:4// W:4, I:4// Ld:10// Sv:2+

Make it clear that his Chapter Tactics are the same as He'Stans.

Why is he Initiative 4 when every other Chapter Master is Initiative 5? Did he miss reaction time training at Chapter Master school or something?

I think Vulcan's Mantle is slighty undercosted when compared to the Armour of Antilochus and should get a rise to 20 points.

Most of the Master Craftsman rule is the same as Chapter Tactics, it should read:

One Terminator squad may have master-crafted storm bolters (same effect as twin-linked anyway.

Your Chapter Tactics could read:

If you include Tu'Shan in your army all units lose the Combat Tactics rule, however all thunder hammers in the army will count as master-crafted and all flamers, heavy flamer, flamestorm cannons, meltaguns and multi-meltas count as twin linked. Only one Chapter Tactic may be applied to an army.


On the Terminators

These guys are way undercosted. For the ability and for the better Inv Save cost should go up to about 250 points.


On Vel'Cona

Fury of the Ancients is waay too powerful compared to other powers to be a free power, especially since its a super-powered Avenger. It should cost points to have that power. Maybe for about 20 points extra for the power? And yes I've said power more times than I've wanted to.

Ancient Drake's activation time should read 'at the end of the Librarian's Movement Phase'

Again, Flaming Bullet needs a cost for what it does, or a Strength value to a maximum of 5 if you want to keep it free. Oh, and it needs a range, if it's to be free a maximum of 12"

On everything else:

No heavy flamers for Devastators?

You can't just go reducing points cost just for kicks. Sure you've limited Fast Attack, but when you can buy TH/SS Termies for that cheap,there's more wiggle room to get them Land Raiders, so feth fast attack. They need to put back to their old cost.

It might also be fluffy to give Scouts flamers.

That's a lot of criticism there, but I do like the concept.

[Atrotos]

Hmmm... well...

Welcome to the Homebrew Board. It's nice to see a new face around here (figuratively speaking).

I've got to be honest with you here Tu'shaun: there's a lot wrong with these rules. You've taken the most contentious character in the marine codex added about 200 points of extras to him and then made everyone that benefits from his presence cheaper?

No. No one is gonna let you field this guy the way he is. Points-wise I'd place him in the 320-350 point range. He has no reason for existing other than an Apocalypse version of Vulcan since he fulfills no role that Vulkan does not already. You've given him every benefit a Marine character can have but no background and no original rules or wargear. This is just Vulkan the Loathed on 'roids. Not fun.

Then your 'Honor Guard' has three upgrade characters in it, access to a dedicated souped-up Land Raider Redeemer, benefits from your monster character's Chapter Tactics rule and some unique options and you've made them cheaper?! TH/SS Terminators are one of the hardest units in the game. If the leaked BA codex is any indication they will become 10 pts more expensive per model in their next iteration. 'Cheaper' is out of the question - if you doubled their current cost they'd be about right.

Your Librarian character is easily worth 260 - 280 points but you've made him 210? He has everything Tigirius does (Tigirius being 230 pts) plus a better save and the ability to cast more powers - this has to be considered when determining his cost.

You're restrictions aren't restrictive at all - it's clear to me you simply don't use many Fast Attack units anyway so losing them doesn't affect your army at all. Your change to the Tactical and Devastator squad is acceptable but Assault Terminators with a 25% decrease in cost? And no you can't just cut the cost of Thunderhammers AND make them all Master-Crafted at the same time!

The point of Homebrew rules is NOT to make existing armies and army builds more powerful/cheaper. 5th edition codecies and the Space Marine codex in particular are very well balanced against each other. These newer codecies feature only a small number of units not fit for competitive play and let me tell you: Vulkan and TH/SS Termies are not amongst them. The goal when writing rules is to help fill the gaps the GW leaves in their codecies. Units and unit options that fit a background that you've imagined but can't field under the official rules. Your 4 flamers/meltaguns option for devastators is a good example - it's a very 'Salamander-y' unit option that doesn't exist so you've made your own.

I hope my stern criticism will not leave a bad taste in your mouth and that you'll revise the rules you've written to make them more balanced before posting them again - I'd be happy to help you in this endeavor. Remember that these custom rules are meant to be fun for you and your opponent so try to imagine how playing against them would make you feel.

[Master Bryss]

@Atrotos: What acolyte?

Indeed though, it is nice to see someone else posting homebrew rules.

EDIT: I just realised we've inadvertedly good cop/ bad cop'd you. Sorry

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

@Atrotos and master bryss.

thank you for the comments and im more than pleased that you both are the first to comment and you complety riped it apart. i completely understand where you are both coming from and if you could help me to look over the rules and redo them i would realy appreciate it. i will pm you my email and send you the rules if that is easier??

i didnt think about playing against them lol. i have a set of rules that someone printed of the internet so i tried to follow them and use the points cost for marneus for Tu'shan. on Velcona i tried to use the ultramarines guys stats and thought the addition of the salamanders own psychic powers was ok.

the terminators now i look at them do need to be more expensive, again i didnt think first i just ran with makeing them more expensive than a honour guard squad from codex space marines.

i think with your help we can make them better and i then plan to send them to GW to see about a sallie codex or sub codex (like the old BA codex) being made

[Master Bryss]

It does not please me to act like a predator, but it must be done in the name of balance!

As for sending me the rules, I can just C+P them into Word and work from there.

[vulkan_tu'shaun]

It does not please me to act like a predator, but it must be done in the name of balance!

As for sending me the rules, I can just C+P them into Word and work from there.

oky day well you can send me what you think is better via email tho lol

[Atrotos]

Tu'shaun working through email isn't the most efficient way of balancing rules because other posters won't know what is sent between us. By keeping the criticism on the thread other posters will know what needs to be added and what has already been covered.

Could you perhaps tell us why you chose to make HQ characters when the marine codex already supplies you with a very good one? How about an upgrade character between 70 and 90 points for an Assault Terminator squad or a Salamander Dreadnought? Things that won't have a huge impact on the game but will give your army the 'Salamander feel' you're looking for?

[Master Bryss]

I personally think that custom Chapter Masters are created because the GW one is simply a Captain with an extra ability and a more expensive, but less flexible, Command Squad. Chapter Masters should have awesome wargear, not just generic stuff.

I agree with Atrotos in that all correspondance should be done here, and as such I've had a go at bringing down Tu'Shan to make him more accurately costed. Note also the PA version has a relic blade now, I've added this becuase of his quote in the Codex.




Chapter Master Tu'Shan Regent of Prometheus.............260pts
WS:6// BS:5 //S:5// T:4// W:4, I:5//A:3// Ld:10// Sv:2+

Unit composition-1(unique)

Unit type-Infantry

Wargear - Artificer Armour, Forgeblade, Master Crafted Combi-Weapon, Iron Halo
Forgeblade: This is a master-crafted Relic Blade

Special Rules - And They Shall Know No Fear, Chapter Tactics , Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Orbital Bombardment, Regent of Prometheus, Might of the flame

Options - replace artificer armour and Forgeblade for Vulcan’s Mantle and Master Crafted Thunder Hammer... 20pts

Chapter Tactics: If you include Tu'Shan in your army all units lose the Combat Tactics rule, however all thunder hammers in the army will count as master-crafted and all flamers, heavy flamer, flamestorm cannons, meltaguns and multi-meltas count as twin linked. Only one Chapter Tactic may be applied to an army.

Combi Weapon: Tu’Shan’s may carry either a combi-melta or a combi-heavy flamer. It counts as twin-linked.

Regent of Prometheus - Tu'Shaun may be accompanied to battle by an honour guard. This may be a squad in power armour as normal or a Terminator Honour Guard.

Vulkans mantle - This is a suit of terminator armour made during the Istavan massacre which Vulkan never used, while wearing this suit it grants Tu'Shaun the Feel No Pain speacial rule. He may still use his Iron Halo with the armour.


Regent of Prometheus Honor Guard Squad

A power-armoured HG squad may be chosen as normal. Any honour guard may exchange his bolter for a combi-flamer or combi-melta at +15 points


Terminator Guard Squad.........160pts


Terminator: WS:4//BS:4//S:4//T:4//W:1//I:4//A:2//Ld:10//Sv:2+
Chapter Champion: WS:5//BS:4//S:4//T:4//W:1//I:4//A:3//Ld:10//Sv:2+

Unit composition - , 1 Chapter Champion, 2 Honour Guard

Unit type - Infantry

Wargear – Terminator Armour, Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, Drake Hide (4+ Invulnerable Save, Chapter Champion only, this can be used if he exchanges his Storm Shield)

Special rules – And They Shall Know No Fear, Combat Tactics, Honour or Death (champion only)

Dedicated transport – May take a Land Raider of any type as a Dedicated Transport

Options –
Add up to 2 more Terminator for +40 points each.
Chapter Champion may replace storm shield for a second thunder hammer… 20pts
Chapter Champion may take digital lasers… 10pts
One Honour Guard may carry the Chapter Standard instead of a storm shield… 25pts
Any model may exchange their storm shield for a combi-flamer or combi-melta for free

If Tu’Shan is in the honor guard squad and the land raider chosen is a redeemer class, the flamestorm cannons count as one weapon for the purpose of the Power of the Machine Spirit rule.


Chapter traits:


Tactical squads – may take a second flamer instead of special weapon…10pts may take a heavy flamer as special weapon… 25pts

Scout squads are 0-1, and one may take a flamer for +10 points.

Terminators- cost 120 points base for 3 Terminators. Stil costs 40 points for each Terminator. Any Terminator may exchange their storm bolter for a combi-weapon at +10 points

Assault Terminators – unit entry from codex: space marines but only cost 120pts, squad size starts at 3, still costs 40 points a Terminator

Devastator squads may have up to 4 flamers for 10pts each, 4 meltaguns for 15pts each, or 4 heavy flamers for +25 points each.

You may only take one of the following: Land speeder squadrons, bike squadrons, attack bike squad, land speeder storm and scout bikers.

As Salamanders keep their Terminator armour in good nick, I propose a starting squad size of 3, to make it easier to field smaller Termie squads (no heavy weapons mind)

[Vulkan64]

its Tushan, not tu'shaun oh and also its vulkan He'stan, not vulkan tu'shaun.