Open-Topped + Flamers?

[Charon]

Then field something other than venoms.

Wow... that is... AMAZING.
So let us run our T3 Models on foot... oh no... same problem... hmm... ah I know! We put them in Raiders because they are not open and... oh... wait... hmm...
Ah! Talos/Cronos! They will 100% catch him when he deepstikes next to them because thats what a smart player will do.... mhm... riiiight.

I love this generic answer without any actual advice which clearly shows how much of an idea the person has.

[ShadowcatX]

Wow... that is... AMAZING.
So let us run our T3 Models on foot... oh no... same problem... hmm... ah I know! We put them in Raiders because they are not open and... oh... wait... hmm...
Ah! Talos/Cronos! They will 100% catch him when he deepstikes next to them because thats what a smart player will do.... mhm... riiiight.

I love this generic answer without any actual advice which clearly shows how much of an idea the person has.

You probably shouldn't talk about people not having an idea. If you had any reading comprehension skills you would have noticed that we were talking about killing a dreadknight and how bad venoms are at it.

[ShadowcatX]

Well, i´m a whiny guy, deal with it . It might have been (but i think it was against GK and i mishapped with Scalpel to form a line), but with pure DE it´s Venoms or Raiders. Field what? Dave has a point. I lost one game just cos i put too much unit on the table and took the flamers = dead. Sure, Eldar allies work like a charm, but the point was PURE DE-list. BA Tactical-list is normally Heavy-flamer,Flamer,Combi-flamer in a Rhino x 3. Now-a-dayz, thats a good one against DE. Eldar would tear that with WS´s in a second. But the main idea of the discussion was, do YOU think the OT + Flamers is OP?

They are imperials in a rhino with flamers, if they catch you, you deserve to burn. Grots, corpse thief claw, there are plenty of ways to intercept them before they cause problems.

And no, I think the rule, while problematic for us, is fine.

[Charon]

You probably shouldn't talk about people not having an idea. If you had any reading comprehension skills you would have noticed that we were talking about killing a dreadknight and how bad venoms are at it.

And if you had any knowledge you would have noticed that Venoms are actually excellent at killing dreadknights, especially those with... you know... Blasterborn... who get roasted.

[ShadowcatX]

And if you had any knowledge you would have noticed that Venoms are actually excellent at killing dreadknights, especially those with... you know... Blasterborn... who get roasted.

You're grasping at straws to avoid being wrong, its really kind of pathetic. Even in your example it isn't the venom who is good at killing them, it is the blasterborn.

[Charon]

Who coincidently sit on a venom which is open topped and suffers from "no escape".

You're grasping at straws to avoid being wrong, its really kind of pathetic.

[ShadowcatX]

Who coincidently sit on a venom which is open topped and suffers from "no escape".

Only if you field blasterborn.Or you could put them in a bastion if you have to field blasterborn. Scourges, otoh, don't need a venom. Grotesques, mean while, aren't afraid of flamers. Nor are ravagers.

[Charon]

Only if you field blasterborn.Or you could put them in a bastion if you have to field blasterborn. Scourges, otoh, don't need a venom. Grotesques, mean while, aren't afraid of flamers. Nor are ravagers.

Srsly?
Bastion suffers from no escape too.
Scourges? Yeah... they will totally deal with a dredknight. You want the 18" blasters which still does not outrange DS + Torrent or 12" + Torrent or the snapshooting Lance? And Grots totally deal with a Monstrous creature with a 2+ that can ID them. WOW. Meanwhile your ravager has 3 lances that most probably still will not deal 3 wounds but costs the same as 2 Venoms which will probably kill him.

Again. This is about the no escape rule. There is not a single Transport in the DE list that is immune to no escape while GK can Ds their torrent flamer and pick the most dangerous target easily due to that rule.

[ShadowcatX]

Srsly?
Bastion suffers from no escape too.
Scourges? Yeah... they will totally deal with a dredknight. You want the 18" blasters which still does not outrange DS + Torrent or 12" + Torrent or the snapshooting Lance? And Grots totally deal with a Monstrous creature with a 2+ that can ID them. WOW. Meanwhile your ravager has 3 lances that most probably still will not deal 3 wounds but costs the same as 2 Venoms which will probably kill him.

Again. This is about the no escape rule. There is not a single Transport in the DE list that is immune to no escape while GK can Ds their torrent flamer and pick the most dangerous target easily due to that rule.

Ok, stop moving the goal posts first off, are you wanting to kill him or are you wanting to survive getting flamered while on a transport? Scourges can deep strike in, at only 2/3 rd the cost of your precious blasterborn in a venom, 2 squads of them will likely do him in if you alpha strike. Ravagers won't do it as economically but they will do it better than venoms. Otoh, grotesques and the ravager don't die to the flamer.

I wasn't aware bastions have no escape. Do you have a page number for that?

Second, I suggest checking the math before you make stupid claims like "2 venoms will probably kill him."

Third, yes, a nearly 200 point model is difficult to deal with compared to our 40 point warrior squads. That's working as intended, especially since that 200 point model is the best thing in their codex.

[Charon]

Ok. Last statement as you really have no clue what you are saying and still think you hold the key to wisdom:

No Escape
If a Template weapon hits a building’s Fire Point or an Open-topped vehicle and there is a unit embarked inside that building or vehicle, then in addition to any other effects that unit suffers D6 hits, resolved at the Strength and AP of the weapon. These hits are Randomly Allocated.

Bastion has Fire points all around.

are you wanting to kill him or are you wanting to survive getting flamered while on a transport?

Both. Because if he kills you first, you wont kill him back. I think that is obvious, right?

Scourges can deep strike in

The DK can also Deepstrike in.

2 squads of them will likely do him in if you alpha strike

IF he is already on the table.
IF both squads arrive at the same time.
IF they do not scatter.

Thats a whole lot of IF.

Otoh, grotesques and the ravager don't die to the flamer.

They do not need to die to his flamer as they are not much of a threat anyways. If the grots dare to assault him (the only thing they actually can do) they just get obliterated by his S10 while failing to get through his 2+

Second, I suggest checking the math before you make stupid claims like "2 venoms will probably kill him."

2 Venoms (without crew) 1,333 wounds on average
Ravager: 1,111 wounds on average

So... in what world is 1,333 worse than 1,111?
"Probably kill him" was a mistake in language in this case, I meant a chance to kill him. Because even in the best circumstances where the ravager hits and wounds all lances while the dredknight misses all saves he will score a maximum of 3 wounds, while the Venoms (with an outlier in saves) could possibly kill him.