Craftworld Eldar in the rumormill

[Tomgar]

O.K. I've absorbed all the information from the new codex and as an Eldar player i agree that it's power level is way above the rest of the other books.
Generally I like the changes (except the scatterbikes) cause they have flavor and seem like a lot of fun, but I greatly disagree with the pricing of stuff.
I won't play scatterbikes but to be honest, I would love to play formations, I want to play a wraithknight, maybe even some wraithguard here and there. I finally see so many possible lists and builds to play which I really like!
Now I have a question for the complainers... Since I do agree with you, please tell me what YOU think the solution to this problem should be?
Would you simply refuse games with me? Would you give me restrictions? House rules? I've already been thinking about giving opponents +150 pts in case I field a WK for example, but I'm not sure if that's a good way to work around the problem since everybody would have their own (and probably different) opinion about the pricing. That's why prices and rules should be written in stone by a competent designer with perfect sense for balance so all the disagreeing players can just stick to them. That's obviously not the case... So what now? I want to play, but I'm sick of feeling guilty when I win because I play Eldar.
Should we just play by tournament rules in friendly games? Would that make it even? If not, what would?

Sorry mate, but I just wouldn't play against you. It's cool that people are saying "hey, I won't take the most broken stuff!" but that ignores the fact that pretty much every other unit is better than equivalents from other Codices. I'm not an uber-competitive gamer, but I still think games should be challenging and fun for both players and playing against these new Eldar just sounds like a horrible grind instead of a fun, balanced game. I feel for Eldar players that feel guilty, but I'm not going to play a game that I likely won't enjoy.

[Mr Mystery]

Am I having a funny five minutes, or did two posts just disappear?

[40kGamer]

Am I having a funny five minutes, or did two posts just disappear?

Hitting the bottle today are we?

[Defenestratus]

Sorry mate, but I just wouldn't play against you. It's cool that people are saying "hey, I won't take the most broken stuff!" but that ignores the fact that pretty much every other unit is better than equivalents from other Codices. I'm not an uber-competitive gamer, but I still think games should be challenging and fun for both players and playing against these new Eldar just sounds like a horrible grind instead of a fun, balanced game. I feel for Eldar players that feel guilty, but I'm not going to play a game that I likely won't enjoy.

I refuse to feel guilty about something I had nothing to do with. I've been playing Eldar since 2nd edition and I couldn't be happier... you know why?

Because for the first time since 1993 I feel like I can take any unit in the book and not feel like I've shortchanged myself. You know when whats-his-face does the "good, the bad and the ugly" of this book, he's going to have a really hard time saying "these units suck and here's why". This means that the book is overall pretty internally balanced. About the only thing I really don't think is worth consideration from what I've seen is the Autarch, and guardians still suck but they are the key to unlocking the warhost.

I wish all of the books were written so that the players don't have to spam 3 units or so and then fill in the rest of their army with a bunch of bad decisions. The only one that comes close is the Necrons book. I'm hoping that the books that come out in the near future will be as great for their players as Eldar players are feeling right now. To think that after next weekend, there's actually a tough decision to be made between scorpions, banshees and wraithblades! To think that there's a hard choice to be made between falcons, reapers and war walkers.... I didn't think I'd ever see the day where at least half of the aspect shrines didn't just stink on ice. Is that what it takes these days for people to accept a codex as legitimate in their eyes? Units that just suck?

As for the jetbikes - they seem to be over the top indeed. I also remember a bunch of youtube videos being posted online about daemonology summoning and how abusive that would be... I still haven't had a single unit of daemons summoned in a game I've played....much less spamming them. I've also failed to run across an unbound list where its nothing but cheesey beardy units like 15 flying hive tyrants or 10 greater daemons, or 20 leman russ tanks (although I'd really like to play against that list). I'd like to think that just because we as players CAN abuse something doesn't mean we WILL. Especially when both people playing know that its supposed to be a good time had by all. Personally, I'm going to stick with a squad of 9 jetbikes with three shuriken cannons because that gives me the flexibility to run 1 big squad or three small squads and keep them cheap - since there are so many other toys that I want to put in my army that are all of a sudden exciting to use. Personally I'm salivating at the thought of a bunch of fire dragons in falcons - that sounds like something thats fun..

- - - Updated - - -

And I got to play with car body resin.

It's well sticky, but easy enough to work with. Ground down and rebuilt rusty areas of the rear wheel arches. Next week? Replace the anti-roll link bar pin things, finish the body work. Should be able to do that whilst the resin cures.

After that, off to the pros for a new exhaust manifold thing and a lambda sensor, rounding off with a new MOT, and then The Beast shall be back on the road, and receive its spangly new Mechanicus decals.

Better take next Monday off really.

Work on boats... less dirt and rust, more resin off-gas and fiberglass dust!

[Charon]

I wish all of the books were written so that the players don't have to spam 3 units or so and then fill in the rest of their army with a bunch of bad decisions.

But they are not. And while they are not, they will have a bad time no matter how "nice" you try to field your army.

I'm hoping that the books that come out in the near future will be as great for their players as Eldar players are feeling right now.

The near future.
In direct comparison we had recently a terribad Khorne Daemonkin codex which does not even have a fraction of that power level. How long till tey revise it? 2 years of getting bashed? 4 years?
Same with Dark Eldar. Everything Eldar can field is either more mobile, has more firepower, more special rules, more durable and on top of it... is a lot cheaper too.
I play both sides and to be honest I can not imagine a single scenario where the Dark Eldar player will have a fun game against ANYTHING eldar can field.

[AnEnemy]

If there's one valuable take away from all the rumors surrounding this book its that there are a lot of really terrible people that play this game.

It is a game right? It's not your life? You won't explode if you're not approaching a table with a 75% chance of winning the game?

I play Dark Eldar/Eldar allies. I've yet to turn down an opponent because I was likely going to lose. That comic strip really hit the nail on the head.

Irrational. You're irrational. Jumping at shadows and what ifs. You all remind me of a few guys at my LGW that are all smiles and giggles when I bring out my DE. Then they start talking @@$% when they see one wave serpent with ten Avengers, three jetbikes, three Dark Reapers and a single Farseer.

[daboarder]

So much this.
In a world of 4+ RP and 5 Flying Nurgle summoner DPs and grav stars and Ad-Lance; I'm amazed people are still surprised by these things. Everyone is so used to getting crapped on, justifiably so, that they can't fathom an army getting a codex that isn't as poorly written as CSM, Orks or DA. I am the FARTHEST thing from an apologist, I ***** plenty about their shenanigans; but I would rather have armies with a bunch of cool stuff than armies that have like 4-5 great things in their whole book. Which includes the last Eldar book. The last two full codicies written in the style they have shifted to; which would be Necrons and now Eldar both are full of useful, flavorful and powerful things. People complain about Necrons a ton. Of course they'll complain about Eldar a ton. It's becoming a have vs have-not. Well, unfortunately the game is always going to have some have-nots. At least they MIGHT be going in the right direction across the board at a faster pace than previous editions.

You can either keep playing and adapt some to the new conditions, or you can give up. Ostracizing a whole group of people based on playing an army they didn't write the rules for and play because they like the aesthetic or the synergy or the fluff or even some of the rules is the wrong answer. Those of us that like a challenge will enjoy making things work against them, and also look forward to playing with the bunch of units they made playable again in my own space elf collection.

People who refuse to play you based on the codex you pull out? I don't want to play them either, because steamrolling someone who has no confidence in their ability to play you isn't fun either.

.....well said keshin. I dont think its fair to hate on Eldar Players just because of the book they got, hate on the players that will abuse said book/complain about the few units that may be bad in said book/ Games Workshop inability to balance the game.

However I can see this book fragmenting the community even further, and thats sad because every time that happens we lose more and more people and the boards get quieter and quieter.

edit: I would however argue that the idea that GW was going in the right direction and 'balancing" the game is a fallacy, they have now broken the mold that the early 7th ed/late 6th ed books were written in and those books will suffer for it, and probably suffer for it again next cycle too because they will be released in the same relative point again and again.

[Charon]

The last two full codicies written in the style they have shifted to; which would be Necrons and now Eldar both are full of useful, flavorful and powerful things.

You forgot Codex: Khorne Daemonkin in between which is nowhere near this power level and has loads of useless stuff.
I do not think there would be as much "hate" if EVERY codex would tend to the Necron/Eldar powerlevel. Sadly we had Daemonkin and Dark Eldar which went exactly the opposit direction.

[Kelshin]

You forgot Codex: Khorne Daemonkin in between which is nowhere near this power level and has loads of useless stuff.
I do not think there would be as much "hate" if EVERY codex would tend to the Necron/Eldar powerlevel. Sadly we had Daemonkin and Dark Eldar which went exactly the opposit direction.

Not a full codex; just a mish-mash of units from CSM and Daemons with some rules added in. Harlies and Skitarii are also not written like that. Also not full codicies.

I played DE religiously for 3 editions, and they got shafted hard. I have a good deal of money and time wrapped into miniatures that haven't touched the table in like a year, and probably won't. They got shafted hard, there is no doubt. It is what it is. Not the first, nor the last time it will happen. I'm much more interested in seeing what they end up doing with Space Marines or whichever "full" codex they next decide to do which will hopefully show a trend. I can happily admit, of course, that big GTs are very very likely to be completely dominated by Eldar. Nature of the beast.

Edit 2 : I think i worded what I meant poorly. When I said Daemonkin isnt a full codex, what I mean to say is that it is VERY obvious that the design team went into it saying "We are going to make a combination codex out of these two existing ones." instead of "We're going to revise this faction." If they changed any of the units for DK in any meaningful way, they would invalidate the ones in the existing codex. Can't exactly do that without rewriting those other TWO as well along side it. I was not surprised one single tiny bit by the fact that nothing really changed. It won't till those main books get a relook. What remains to be seen is if they will keep stuff neutered when they do THAT based on the DK book series existing. I sincerely hope not for all those Chaos players.

[Charon]

It is a full codex in the same style as Necron and Eldar and not written like Harlies and Skitarii.