Craftworld Eldar in the rumormill

[Lexington]

I think your pricing is significantly different than mine. I'd say the wraithknight is 50 - 100 pints undercosted, and the jetbike special weapons probably undercosted by 5 points a model, ditto wraith guard probably. It makes a big difference in the long run, but not game breakingly so.

When it comes to jetbikes, the issue isn't so much cost as availability. A Windrider squad has the ability to put an absolutely obscene amount of highly mobile firepower on the table for a far, far lower cost then they ought to be able to, and there's really not much you can do to counter it besides hope that you only have to weather one turn of it. The price would be fine for a weapon that could be taken on, say, one in five models, but every single one just makes the unit far, far too powerful.

Totally agreed. Wraiths and Jetbikes and just horrifying now, with Jetbikes easily taking the title of best troops choice in the game. The thing that really annoys me is how Dark Eldar were hit by 7th ed blandhammer and now the craftworlders get a jillion unnecessary buffs. It leaves the Dark Kin (whose technology is supposedly so advanced it may as well be magic) essentially at the same power level as they were in 5th, only with fewer wargear options and special characters. And yet Craftworld Eldar get buffed from overpowered to just plain silly. Awesome.

Yes, this. The Eldar Codex is bad - bad enough that I'm seeing a lot of levelheaded people just shrug and wonder how quickly they can transition their locals from 40K to a different game - but it's made worse by the complete U-turn of design philosophy. After the relatively balanced first wave of 7th Ed books, we've now got a sudden and unpleasant return to power creep. Given the Necron Codex, this doesn't seem to be a fluke, either.

[daboarder]

Yes, this. The Eldar Codex is bad - bad enough that I'm seeing a lot of levelheaded people just shrug and wonder how quickly they can transition their locals from 40K to a different game - but it's made worse by the complete U-turn of design philosophy. After the relatively balanced first wave of 7th Ed books, we've now got a sudden and unpleasant return to power creep. Given the Necron Codex, this doesn't seem to be a fluke, either.

Ha, half of my mates who are upset about this book ARE eldar players.

[Lexington]

Ha, half of my mates who are upset about this book ARE eldar players.

Yeah, I feel bad for Eldar players right now. They were already one of the reigning books, with all their Serpent Spam, and now the problem's gotten even worse. [URL="http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?407490-Eldar-imminent&p=7426740&viewfull=1#post7426740"]This post[/URL] from totgeboren over at Warseer says it pretty well:

This just in, "your friend needs to buy a new army".
Seriously, I got two friends who play Eldar, and one of them is now considering shelving/selling his army, since he can't make an army that will result in fun games from his current collection. The other really likes winning, but he is seriously concerned that people wont wanna play him unless he pays them to (tournament).

This seems to probably be the worst codex GW has released, ever, even taking the Realm of Chaos books from RT days into account.

When Skaven were released in 5ed whfb, I could take on 2 enemy armies at once. That last match, where I won convincingly even though deploying in the middle with two enemy armies arrayed against me, one at the front and one at the back, destroyed whfb for me. I never bough a whfb model after that and my group stopped playing.

I like w40k, but not unconditionally, and this could potentially spell the end of my gaming group.
Products like this can cause whole gaming groups to collapse because you don't want to exclude anyone, so you switch over to another game instead.

[daboarder]

warp spiders:

They can move as before 6+2d6" and if double "1" loose a model, but they can choose to jump (2d6") in the opponent's shooting phase after the warp spiders are chosen as a target. If warp spiders are out of range or out of los after this movement, firing unit cannot choose another target. If they jump in the opponent's shooting phase, they cannot jump on their next turn.

Edit: so its got a drawback, well thats nice, but this style of rule should NOT exist

[Defenestratus]

I'm not in the least upset. I'm sitting going "FINALLY!"

I'm sick as hell of d-bags thinking that the Eldar codex was "broken" because of a single tank. That tank didn't constitute the whole freakin book and if you wanted to play Eldar without sitting 5 wave serpents on your back table edge - totally against how they were supposed to be portrayed on the table top - then you had a really REALLY tough fight on your hands. Now it looks like you can take literally any unit in the book and not go to the table thinking "why the hell did I DO this?"

Yes, this. The Eldar Codex is bad - bad enough that I'm seeing a lot of levelheaded people just shrug and wonder how quickly they can transition their locals from 40K to a different game -

Dude... you know how I get in the channel.. I lost it how many times over the necron codex? I had the exact same thoughts about army wide FNP+4+ and ridiculous C'Tan powers and STUFF THAT JUST DOESN'T FREAKIN DIE!!!

I have a feeling that when this book comes out, people actually give it a fair shake on the table top, they'll not think its as bad as everyone thinks it is.

Plus, this is what you powergaming f-tards had this coming. You do sh*t to break the game, and the game will figure out how to break you. If you've ever fielded 3 knights, invisible centurions, or 18 wraiths in a normal game then you deserve the "rectification" that is the new Eldar codex (even though I don't really think its going to be as game breaking as everyone thinks it will)

10 jetbikes with all scatter lasers will be 270 pts. That puts out 40 shots. At T4 thats 7.4 unsaved MEQ wounds. For 270 points I can put together a nasty-*** Sanguinary guard/priest unit that has nothing but master crafted powers swords, with the chapter banner that on the charge will do 12 unsaved MEQ wounds. The old war walker squad with scatter lasers and starcannons was 210 pts. It would do ~6 unsaved MEQ wounds per shooting turn on a JSJ unit. Broadsides are slightly more expensive and can lay down the pain as well. I realize that none of these examples are objsec but they all have other benefits that the jetbikes don't.

Point is, that if you think people are going to spam the jetbike, then why aren't they spamming these other units that have comparable damage outputs?

Hell I'm still waiting to play someone in an unbound game where they take 10 bloodthirsters.. that hasn't happened yet either.

[daboarder]

EDIT: You know what def, shut up, seriously most of us commiserated with you over the obvious flaws in the old book.

You dont then get to turn around and attack us when we point out the equally bad balance issues in this book. ESPECIALLY when those balance issues are external.

Calm down man, your being overly belligerent here.

Plus, this is what you powergaming f-tards had this coming. You do sh*t to break the game, and the game will figure out how to break you. If you've ever fielded 3 knights, invisible centurions, or 18 wraiths in a normal game then you deserve the "rectification" that is the new Eldar codex (even though I don't really think its going to be as game breaking as everyone thinks it will)

This is probably my biggest issue, because some of us, I hate to inform you are stuck on the **** side of this god aweful abomination of an arms race that GW is shoveling, and we have to put up with their **** and your **** as well so you might not realise but as bad as you think Cron, Marine and Knight players can be, the rest of us are sitting here in "Bad Guy" land thinking you're behaving the EXACT SAME WAY.

[CptDrake]

My first post on the forums woohoo. Anyways. As a Eldar and Dark Eldar player I see where the problem lies with this new codex but, I remember a time back in 4th edition that it was bad for the xeno races to even compete with the Space Marines from the meta I saw while I was stationed at Ft. Bliss and Ft. Hood. Also it took forever for the Tau and Eldar codices to come out around 10 years I think. I do agree that two years is short but, I kinda rather have a release schedule like this or some FAQs. I agree with the wave serpent issue about the shield but now honestly from what I saw being here at Seattle and around the interweb Space Marine's are well off. Mr. Defenestratus gave a good example of one very nasty option out there. I do believe that we all can think of one. I for one I am excited that I can field an aspect army again. Will I use the bikes maybe, will I use the wraith knight maybe but really if someone uses more than let say two then they are just idiots and "That Guy". Also if it is true with the current release rumors bouncing around I could see Tau and Space Marines getting the same treatment for example, think about how the Tau can bring strength D rail guns or the Space Marines getting something. Just my two cents sorry if little long winded LOL.

[Tomgar]

So basically, you're acknowledging that this is a "powergamer" Codex and essentially telling everyone who isn't cool with that to get stuffed. Remind me never to play a game against you. Some of us actually like games to be challenging and fun.

- - - Updated - - -

This is probably my biggest issue, because some of us, I hate to inform you are stuck on the **** side of this god aweful abomination of an arms race that GW is shoveling, and we have to put up with their **** and your **** as well so you might not realise but as bad as you think Cron, Marine and Knight players can be, the rest of us are sitting here in "Bad Guy" land thinking your behaving the EXACT SAME WAY.

So much this. Eldar players might rejoice that they're the new OP hotness to counter Necrons, but people who play Dark Eldar, Chaos, Dark Angels, Nids etc. are being screwed by both power-creep and the people who accept it because "yay, my army is amazing now!" We end up being called "trolls" and "overly negative" by the positivity brigade, just because we want a bit more game balance.

[Stone Edwards]

So basically, you're acknowledging that this is a "powergamer" Codex and essentially telling everyone who isn't cool with that to get stuffed. Remind me never to play a game against you. Some of us actually like games to be challenging and fun.

- - - Updated - - -



So much this. Eldar players might rejoice that they're the new OP hotness to counter Necrons, but people who play Dark Eldar, Chaos, Dark Angels, Nids etc. are being screwed by both power-creep and the people who accept it because "yay, my army is amazing now!" We end up being called "trolls" and "overly negative" by the positivity brigade, just because we want a bit more game balance.

"Positivity brigade"....seriously have you read many posts on just about any 40k related forum? The brigade is not filled with positive people.

All this complaining about the codex serves absolutely no point. This is how it is, GW is publishing the codex like this. Either deal with it, or go play something else. There are no other options. Posting the same things over and over helps nothing.

[Lexington]

Calm down man, your being overly belligerent here.

Heh, nah, he's just responding to me. We've been having this back-and-forth all day in our IRC channel, and we're bad to each other.

Also, I'm glad to see that popular opinion seems to hold that the new Necron book was way overpowered itself. For a while, I thought it was just me (well, and Def, and the rest of the channel...).

All this complaining about the codex serves absolutely no point. This is how it is, GW is publishing the codex like this. Either deal with it, or go play something else. There are no other options. Posting the same things over and over helps nothing.

Oh, there's lots of other options, just not universally accepted ones. Maybe the Eldar Codex will help make them more acceptable.