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  1. #1
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    Default Stop Your Whinging!

    Alright, engage rant.

    I am so f***ing sick of hearing people trot out the same c**p. You can't go a day without someone b****ing about how X army is broken or Y army hasn't been updated in years or the whole game is completely useless and not playable (though the fact that the vast majority of gamers play this game would suggest it is). It's not balanced, it doesn't match the fluff, it's not designed for tournaments, there aren't enough FAQs, it's not playtested or it's not realistic.

    Shut up! Enough already. We live in the age of the internet. You can open your computer, tap a keyboard, leave a semi-coherent thought on a forum and engage with someone all the way on the other side of the world. The beauty of this is that we are able to engage with people who share our passions and interests that we may never have known even existed otherwise.

    What's my point? Am I just going to b***h about b****ing? No. What I am going to do is offer a solution. The other day on Faeit212, there was a response from GW about round bases in WHFB. The gist of the response was "we have your money, do whatever you want with the models". Now, obviously they mean in the sense of basing them however we want. BUT, the next day, Mantic came out and said "hey, you've got a sweet Fantasy army, why not play it using our rules?"

    This begs the question: why don't we just come up with our own rules? I'll admit guilt here. I, like most of you, am too busy and too lazy to write my own rules system. But I'm also big enough to admit that I'm in no way qualified or gifted enough to write an all encompassing and coherent rule set for a game. But I remember before Forgeworld released Legion rules and the Horus Heresy supplement, BoLS did it first. Sadly, I never got the chance to play it, but by all accounts it was a heap of fun. Surely one of us, or a select group of us are interested and skilled enough to do this. Call it Fight-Weapon 40million and put it out there. Make a dedicated forum and when people pi$$ and moan on it, ask them why they don't like it and try to find a way to fix it.

    At the end of the day, GW want to be just a model company, they're not interested in creating a rule set that accurately reflects the game while also being a truly balanced and competition ready game. That's fine. Let's take that in our stride and get cracking on a sweet new game that lets us use some of the best miniatures available in a game that satisfies our urge to beat face.

    Fluff bunnies can stick to 40k official, and even the hardcores will still play it for funsies from time to time.

    It's just a thought. Any ideas?

    End rant.

  2. #2

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    "Give up the game you love to use house rules" is not an acceptable solution to "I wish this game was balanced".

  3. #3

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    At the end of the day, GW want to be just a model company, they're not interested in creating a rule set that accurately reflects the game while also being a truly balanced and competition ready game.
    then maybe they should stop selling "rules" for nearly 50 € ?
    Let them be a pure model company and see how many people still buy their models when there are no rules at all.
    Or *shock* give away their "rules" for free? On the other side... they can't even be arsed to put up FAQs on a regular base.

    The problem with home brew rules is (while some are really good), they are not accepted/known everywhere.
    If I want to pick up a game of 40k right now, I can go to a club, FLGS,... and play with a ruleset everybody that owns 40k knows.
    If I want to play against you, bring my army and tell you "I have created my army by Jims awesome Warhamster 39 + 1 Millenimum ruleset v1.4" you will probably have no idea what I am talking about.
    Also, only a few players bother to use forums.

  4. #4

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    Or you should not pay for a game you don't enjoy, and instead invest those funds in something you do enjoy.

    I'm with the OP. Many people have grumbles and issues with the game - that's human nature. But when you drop into a thread only to find the Droop Group once again trotting out the same old whinges, it gets old fast.
    Fed up for Scalpers? https://www.facebook.com/groups/1710575492567307/?ref=bookmarks

  5. #5
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    Default

    Isn't saying "Why don't we just create our own rules because X is broken" still *****ing about the rules?

    However the process of robo-insemination is far too complex for the human mind!
    A knee high fence, my one weakness

  6. #6
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    Default

    the game is balanced. any faction can beat any other. if you can't, then you suck, not the rules.
    Twelve monkeys, eleven hats. One monkey is sad.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychosplodge View Post
    Isn't saying "Why don't we just create our own rules because X is broken" still *****ing about the rules?
    Not really. Serial whining is circular, and just goes on and on and on - hence it gets tiresome.

    Those who chip in with 'Rule A really doesn't work for me, so my friends and I adapted it to Rule A1, a house rule'. That's constructive, and gives path to further discussion and chit chat.

    Consider how many 'OMG NEW TOY' threads have been derailed not by the Horsemen, but by those lamenting the state of their own army. Sucks all the joy out of it, because they just won't leave it.

    It's not a case of not empathising or sympathising - it's just we've heard it all before, so why keep going on about it? We're not GW. We have no control over what comes and when. The game does have some issues, but the way some of the complaints come over, you'd think it's part of a carefully targeted campaign by GW to annoy certain people for reasons best known to themselves.
    Fed up for Scalpers? https://www.facebook.com/groups/1710575492567307/?ref=bookmarks

  8. #8

    Default

    The annoying part is when said whining bleeds into the local store, and a group that was otherwise enjoying 40K despite its flaws gets filled up by the negativity of a relative few and slowly drop out of it. We ended up having to ban b**ching about other games. (I was guilty of it as well towards WarmaHordes, a game that simply doesn't scratch my itch, and was mainly pushed on me repeatedly over the course of a few months by ex 40K players.)

    Personally I don't like tournament play or metagaming or anything like that. Most of my games are organised in advance with a friend, we give each other a heads-up on what we're taking, and the games end up going pretty well as a result. So if I'm bringing a horde of Russes or a buffed-up Bullgryn blob, then I'll give my opponents a heads-up. In turn, I'll know whether my friend is bringing his Eldar or Orks that day, and whether the Stompa will make an appearance or not.

    I dunno, 40K has been impossible to replace for me, there's no game I've tried that really captures the scale, customisation and lore. I'm getting into Bolt Action with a Soviet army, but that's going to be a very different game I'll play when I feel like it. I don't think I'll ever get sick of playing my Guard atm, as the Codex has a decent enough variety of builds that it keeps me occupied for the one or two games I play each week.

    Not to mention I would much rather build and paint any GW model than assemble another Legion of Everblgiht starter box...
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  9. #9

    Default

    The rule set isn't balanced, but more than that, there's parts of it that are an utter mess, and it seems the only reason they keep changing are to make sure people stop using the models they have and buy new ones. Orks had all their serious close combat ability stripped - the loss of choppas (their best way to get through armor) and invulnerable saves in combat being key issues - and now it's better to go shooty with even Orks (ditto for Tyranids). Long-time players who massed up figures they never assembled (like me) aren't too bad off, because we can just pull out the unassembled models to build a new army. Other players just have to go and replace their models.

    You can't deny that problem exists when people complain about how useless their Howling Banshees are. Meanwhile, Thunderwolf Cavalry are obnoxiously good. And that's supposed to be the fault of the players, and the players suck, rather than a legitimate complaint? I could go on and on.

    Yeah, sure, some people get carried away. But those of you who want to silence others and bury your head in the sand and claim nothing is wrong, especially when they keep jacking up the price for the rules (and you defend the price of the rules, too), are actually worse. The "answer" eventually becomes "Leave the hobby! I don't care how much you've already spent! Go away and shut up!" And you know what? A lot of people are obliging you. Which is why GW's revenues dropped last year despite releasing a bunch of expensive stuff, including a new rules set for their flagship game, which in and of itself should have been a sales boost. Worse for us gamers, we have fewer people to play against, as they depart for other games.

    And let's nip this claim that "GW wants to be a model company" as an excuse. First off, the fact they're shoving out so many rulebooks suddenly, and the pricing being so high on all these codices, rulebooks, campaigns, etc., is proof that the rules are an important part of their money-making strategy (see the early release of 7th edition for some much needed cash). But more importantly, they know they need a good set of rules to sell models, something they say very specifically on their investor relations site. Without rules, who's going to stick around buying overpriced models, especially in the numbers people buy them? Not nearly enough for GW to run a profit. This is evidenced as well by WFB being blown up and replaced with a new edition aimed at drawing people back into the game. It's no coincidence that fewer WFB players has equaled fewer WFB model sales. Similarly, the lack of people playing LOTR is why GW wants to get rid of it. The models have included some of the best GW's done, and yet they aren't selling. But if people buy models in a vacuum, they'd sell, right? Oh, except you need a reason for people to buy the models other than "they look nice." And if you're going to try to make them unique to "protect the IP" (with 40K and WFB), then they aren't so usable with D&D and all (ironic, considering how GW started), so, again, you need to have your own rules to even be able to sell the models. And those rules have to be good enough to grab people's interest and keep it. And if you're having issues with people finding insane combos and certain armies dominating in the competitive scene and all, it starts making it harder to move the other armies and units, which in turn presents a problem for Games Workshop's bottom line as well... hence the need to redo the codices at times (though, rather than balancing things out, they tend to swing the pendulum the other way, which they assume will get people to pick up models they don't already have to replace, not use alongside, the models they already have... sometimes they're worse at swinging that pendulum than Blizzard is, and Blizzard can be really bad at it when they try).

  10. #10

    Default

    Dude.

    I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting the game is flaw free - there are issues.

    But, I for one don't particularly care, because that's just the nature of the beast. Those who go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it strike me as the sort who will buy a second hand car, and then complain it hasn't got all the latest bells and whistles, going on to claim they were ripped off.

    The rules can be a bit a shonky. But the game works. The game remains fun. I enjoy the hobby experience. Reading, building the kits, even the occasional paint job which proves I'm not that bad a painter, just a very lazy painter.

    Yet this attitude appears offensive to some. It's as if they just can't comprehend that others just aren't fussed, and accept the flaws as part and parcel of the game.

    Rulebooks are a method to sell models. The wider the variety of possible combinations, the better the chance someone with an existing army will branch out - either to tweak their force to a new theme (say, Necron players buying two or three kits to make some sweet Decurion formation) or to add allies. Model buying is addictive. GW are putting out great kits which are very pleasing to put together. Allies can very easily burgeon into a small force, and then a larger force.

    Is GW trying to get rid of LotR? Is Warhammer slow selling? GW don't publish those figures, so we don't really have anything to go on in that respect, other that personal observations and wishful thinking on the behalf of some posters.

    And you know, if you're not enjoying the hobby any more - then do walk away. There's many things in life I once quite enjoyed, but now find 'meh', so I don't do them for a while. I'll come back to them a few months or years after, and might find them 'yay' once again.
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