Got the Eldar Codex, first impressions

[Defenestratus]

And so along with the Wraiths, you bring Jetbikes with 30-40 shots per squad (actually likely 15-20, to break them up some for tactical flexibility), Guardians with all their shots, Dire Avengers, Swooping Hawks who can trash their Valkyries while moving and then unload 30 shots on Guardsmen... Yeah, they've got ways to deal with big numbers. Or, heck, just run the Wraith in and charge a platoon and start stomping everything. Works for my Knight.

Well, the new Battle Robits from the Admech will do a better job at laying down Str 6 wounds at nearly the same point cost so I'm not sure where to file your complaint.

Guardians can be avoided easily, as can the hawks (seriously, you're complaining about a unit of T3, 4+ save dudes?)

Have you actually played a game against the new Eldar yet? I've played a game against my buddy who was using blood angels for the first time in his life and he came within a hairs-width of tabling me. If it wasn't for a lucky inv save on my war walker, his furioso would have just careened through my lines and tabled me on turn 5. Not to mention the fact that his damn assault marines with 2x flamers and a sanguinary priest didn't finally die until my last round of shooting while they racked up quite the impressive mount of dead guardians.

Yes Eldar are powerful. They should be. They die SUPER EASILY* though.

*Wraith constructs not included

[deinol]

I can say with certainty that Jetbikes die as soon as anyone shoots at them. They are great and I love them, but they are nowhere near as strong as marine bikes, and I don't remember marine bike lists breaking the tournament scene.

[Defenestratus]

I can say with certainty that Jetbikes die as soon as anyone shoots at them. They are great and I love them, but they are nowhere near as strong as marine bikes, and I don't remember marine bike lists breaking the tournament scene.

i see people complaining that they can't be killed because of their JSJ ability. Thats true for small squads. 10 however are going to be hard to JSJ effectively as the footprint for them is going to be huge - and in this day and age of massed deep strike and drop pods, getting to jetbikes to kill them shouldn't be a problem for most armies.

[40kGamer]

i see people complaining that they can't be killed because of their JSJ ability. Thats true for small squads. 10 however are going to be hard to JSJ effectively as the footprint for them is going to be huge - and in this day and age of massed deep strike and drop pods, getting to jetbikes to kill them shouldn't be a problem for most armies.

The bikes are really fast moving marines... and we all know how insanely difficult it is to kill basic marines.

[Erik Setzer]

Well, the new Battle Robits from the Admech will do a better job at laying down Str 6 wounds at nearly the same point cost so I'm not sure where to file your complaint.
*SNIPPITY SNIP*

I'm not "complaining," rather nothing that there's no reason to be worried about mass infantry just because D weapons aren't that great against them, as the Eldar have lots of other stuff to use.

And yeah, I think Swooping Hawks are awesome, and plan to use two squads when I can (probably have to get more, unless I can convince my brother to give me back the unpainted unit).

As for the AdMech robots, a unit of them costs 290 base, about the same as a Wraithknight, and the WK can turn its weapons on them. So that problem is solved.

You can make an Eldar army that can counter pretty much any army it comes across. I plan on doing that with my own Eldar (though it'll probably take making some purchases... I have no Wraithguard, Wraithknights, or Wave Serpents).

[Arkhan Land]

Sort of crazy seeing how the new Ad-Mech heavy MC choice will clock in with 6 T7 wounds and aside from a S6 dakkafest can also fire a torrent flamer, I think this D-nonsense makes sense with where they are going.

Brilliant buisness strategy

Step one fill out existing product lines and create new ones

Step Two - change game rules to make it so many many many more physical models get wiped clean out in a normal game

Step Three - Sell more models

Step Four - update apocalypse to be for battles 4k and more meaning a 3k battle is the new big-norm

Step Five - sell more models

Step Six - sell more models

[Charon]

They die SUPER EASILY* though.

Try to use transports maybe? I don't know what other armies you play, but eldar are in fact one of the more durable armies out there.
3+ armor across all good units, AV12 transports, artificial/enhanced cover saves, invul saves and force multipliers...
Sure they are no necrons, but they do outlive the average Space Marine by far.

and I don't remember marine bike lists breaking the tournament scene.

Good thing White Scars Bike lists where never a thing

[deinol]

Good thing White Scars Bike lists where never a thing

I remember talk about them, but after about a month it seemed like it was all talk. But I will admit I don't follow the tourney scene that closely. How many large tourneys did white scars win?

Edit: we were talking how easy bikes died. Last I checked you couldn't put jet bikes in wave serpents.

[Charon]

we were talking how easy bikes died.

Bike do not die easy. They are one of the most durable units in their point class...
They are 3 points more than a standard tactical marine. They are A LOT harder to kill than a tactical marine.
So please stop beeing deluded of how "easy" jetbikes die when everything else for the same points dies a lot faster.

[Power Klawz]

I'm not seeing how "everything else for the same points dies a lot faster." I mean look at imperial and chaos bikers, they are around the same cost and they don't die faster. In fact, they die slower. Which is the opposite of faster. Here's some mathhammer:

Average number of MEQ bolter shots to kill
1 guardian jetbike: 9.09
1 CSM biker: 13.51
1 Ork warbike: 9.09
1 tactical marine: 9.09

Let's use GEQ lasguns now
1 Guardian Jetbike: 17.86
1 CSM biker: 35.71
1 Ork Warbike: 23.81
1 tactical marine: 17.86

How about tau pulse rifles?
1 Guardian Jetbike: 9.09
1 CSM biker: 12.05
1 Ork Warbike: 8
1 Tactical Marine: 9.09

And lets use guardian shuriken catapults to round it out
1 Guardian Jetbike: 5.46
1 CSM biker: 6.67
1 Ork Warbike: 6.06
1 Tactical Marine: 5.46

So using this limited data set we can clearly see that Guardian jetbikes are not substantially more survivable against standard infantry weaponry than comparable options and, in fact, are generally less survivable. This is probably why they are costed as such.

Of course they are more "maneuverable" than the other options, but since their standard armament is shorter ranged this doesn't do them much good in terms of survivability, other than being better able to exploit terrain that blocks line of sight if its available, but given the vagaries of fate inherent to that propositions its hard to quantify or prove one way or the other. Definitely a good unit for a good price, but definitely not hard to kill either.

If we upgun them with higher ranged weapon options they become substantially more expensive, thus making the argument of survivability per cost unit moot. Chaos marine bikers have a lot of expensive options as well, but if we just take the mark of nurgle their survival rates skyrocket, and they're still cheaper per unit than upgunned jetbikes.