Got the Eldar Codex, first impressions

[ShadowcatX]

Guardians must be even more of a personal taste and style unit than normal. Of course I've always had them in my lists so when they added +1BS, Battle Focus and Bladestorm for what was +1 PV I was in Eldar heaven. I really get a lot of mileage out of them on table.

Its fine to have units that you like and make a pet project, but let's not act like they're a great unit and simply being over shadowed by even better units. They're not.

[40kGamer]

Its fine to have units that you like and make a pet project, but let's not act like they're a great unit and simply being over shadowed by even better units. They're not.

Consider them in the larger context. For Eldar, Guardians are cheap boots on the ground that are still superior to a lot of other troops in the entire game. And From a synergy standpoint they also perform amazingly well with the rest of the army.

[ShadowcatX]

Consider them in the larger context. For Eldar, Guardians are cheap boots on the ground that are still superior to a lot of other troops in the entire game. And From a synergy standpoint they also perform amazingly well with the rest of the army.

To whom are they superior and how? I just compared them to the skitarii and "superior" is not even close to how I would describe the equally costed guardians.

[Arkhan Land]

Lets do a compare

Skit. Pros:
-Has a Character
-Cheaper at 5 more costly at full strength, cool to have smaller option
-Comparable BS
-Comparable Weapons, PS is a cool rule, so is Bladestorm, added ap
-Can take three "Heavier" Weapons
-Doctrina
-Relentless

Cons:
-Weapon Upgrades are EXSPENSIVE
-No transport, repeat no transport

Gaurdian Pros:
-Bladestorm - theres things they can wound AP2 that the S4 cant touch
-Initiative 5, in combat this can be a bruiser
-Weapons Platforms weapon choices are awesome and RELENTLESS for the person shooting them
-also Weapons platforms give you that one T5 3+ model that isnt a dude.
-Can take arguably the one of the best DTs in the game
-Battle focus is shenanigin #1 we just saw the knights got that gattling cannon, one of the best things about the gaurdians is the abilit to MOVE IT out of LOS running twice with fleet is no joke.

Gaurdian Cons:
-No Character
-Need ten
-No Special Weapons beyond 1/10 platform
-SCs are some damn short range.

and heres the most brutal part where I draw the line personally

My dream build for skittari rangers will (three arc rifles, omni., weapons for Alpha) costs about 200 points.
My dream build for Gaurdians w/scatL with a serpent costs about 240 in points

if you just want to compare just infantry to infantry take a double gaurdian sqaud with scatters for 220. which inside of the SCs range is much more so the Dakka and subsequent danger.

So its really a matter of what you are going to do with them. Hosts of Metal doing well against vehicles, and the hosts of Flesh being able to slice even the toughest fatties

[Mr Mystery]

A non-Eldar player's perspective on Guardians.

They worry me. I know they're short ranged. I know they fold like a cheap suit when I turn my attentions on them.

But they do objective camping quite exquisitely. They tie into the wider Eldar army very nicely. If they're on an objective, and they're not the main target of the kickings I intend to dish out in my next turn, I'll try to keep outside their range, because they're really, really nasty. Even without Bladestorm, I really don't fancy that many BS4, S4 AP5 shots at my dudes. Add in Bladestorm, and it can turn even a marginally flukey batch of dice into a wholesale slaughter.

All the time I'm wary of wandering into range, whilst trying to keep the real heavy hitters dealt with (Aspects, Wraith Constructs, Tanks), my positioning is limited.

Worst case scenario I once blundered right into? Landraider Crusader filled with Terminators, parked a little too close. Sodding Wraithguard popped the Landraider, and the Guardians massacred all my Terminators. That sort of experience leaves an impression!

[ShadowcatX]

Lets do a compare

Skit. Pros:
-Has a Character
-Cheaper at 5 more costly at full strength, cool to have smaller option

Only more expensive if you look at Rangers. Vanguard are much more comparable.

-Comparable BS

If by comparable you mean 1 - 3 points better for the most important turns of the game, then sure, they're comparable.

-Comparable Weapons, PS is a cool rule, so is Bladestorm, added ap

Really? 12 inches vs 18 inches, 2 shots vs 3 shots. Bladestorm is only good if you actually get to use it.

-Can take three "Heavier" Weapons

In a 5 person squad (including the character's weapon choice.)

You also forgot to mention their scouting move.

Cons:
-No transport, repeat no transport

Which is a really, REALLY big deal since they have a 12 inch range, no extra movement at the start of the game, and no or few heavy weapons. Oh wait, that's guardians. Skitarii don't need a transport.

Gaurdian Pros:
-Bladestorm - theres things they can wound AP2 that the S4 cant touch

Yes, for the 1 turn you can use it, blade storm can be nice.

-Initiative 5, in combat this can be a bruiser

Really? I mean really? Has anyone been like "I'm going to take these guardians and take advantage of their I5" ever? Looks like you're reaching here.

-Weapons Platforms weapon choices are awesome and RELENTLESS for the person shooting them
-also Weapons platforms give you that one T5 3+ model that isnt a dude.

They're not bad, but you get to take 1 in 10 guardians.

-Can take arguably the one of the best DTs in the game

And most expensive.

-Battle focus is shenanigin #1 we just saw the knights got that gattling cannon, one of the best things about the gaurdians is the abilit to MOVE IT out of LOS running twice with fleet is no joke.

Really? If I was running guardians I'd be all about having the S6, AP 3, rending gun shoot at my T3, Sv 5+, cheap dudes who only need 1 person in the squad to man single heavy weapon that they came with.

- - - Updated - - -

I know they're short ranged. I know they fold like a cheap suit when I turn my attentions on them.

But they do objective camping quite exquisitely.

What makes them good at objective camping, their short range or them folding like a cheap suit? Either way, I've apparently been doing my objective camping wrong because I thought the ideal objective campers would have a good range and some resilience.

[Mr Mystery]

Read the rest of me post. It's all in there.

[ShadowcatX]

Read the rest of me post. It's all in there.

The part where you say if they aren't targeted they will survive, and they one time got real lucky in one game and so obviously they are good? Didn't think that was worth addressing, but I did read it, I assure you.

[40kGamer]

To whom are they superior and how? I just compared them to the skitarii and "superior" is not even close to how I would describe the equally costed guardians.

For starters if we do a 1:1 compare outside of codex synergies I would bet
11 Guardians + Warlock with a Singing Spear and a Scatter Laser which clocks in at 154 are better than
10 Tactical Marines with a flamer and a Heavy Bolter that clocks in at 155.
(Arbitrarily chose the heavy weapons with a comparable ROF and range.)

With deployment and cover (Which ever board has in spades if it is set up properly) the Guardians have the advantage of dancing in and out of the Hvy Bolter for the marines with the Scatter Laser forcing the marines to be be aggressive and close with them. The Warlock is pretty reliable at buffing the Guardians cover save and the Marines are not likely to close the distance to punish them with their bolters/flamer before they give in to attrition.

[40kGamer]

The part where you say if they aren't targeted they will survive, and they one time got real lucky in one game and so obviously they are good? Didn't think that was worth addressing, but I did read it, I assure you.

If someone is targeting my Guardians either:
A) They are extremely bad at target priority or
B) The rest of my army is already dead and I've probably lost the game