Got the Eldar Codex, first impressions

[DarkLink]

Is it a flat invuln, or just against shooting?

[Learn2Eel]

Is it a flat invuln, or just against shooting?

It's an all-purpose 5+ invulnerable save, the main reason why I really don't mind the change.

[ShadowcatX]

Jetbikes outshoot every single power armor unit in the entire game

O RLY? I assume you would never ever make totally baseless accusations and have math to back this statement up? Please, share it with us.

[Arkhan Land]

I think he's mostly right A fully SC-ed out WR Sqaudron (81 points) is going to get 9 S6 shots at 36"

Versus your standard SM Sqaud is going to get off 9 bolter shots only within 12" upgrade as you will with heavy weapons which cant move and shoot or special weapons that still have a similar range.
So I guess closest thing is devastator where you can get 12 Heavy Bolter Shots, lower strength but better AP but that's 110 points and suddenly your windrider sqaudron grows a bike bigger...

SM-Bike units can come close with mobility and range + relentless for its heavy weapons and to top it off theyre the good ole' T5 and S4 when they get into it but then again that sqaud is going to cost a lot more

you really have to go to the centurions to get more shots and the price is way over the WR's

im going to try and think about this today while i go move some crap

[ShadowcatX]

I think he's mostly right A fully SC-ed out WR Sqaudron (81 points) is going to get 9 S6 shots at 36"

Versus your standard SM Sqaud is going to get off 9 bolter shots only within 12" upgrade as you will with heavy weapons which cant move and shoot or special weapons that still have a similar range.
So I guess closest thing is devastator where you can get 12 Heavy Bolter Shots, lower strength but better AP but that's 110 points and suddenly your windrider sqaudron grows a bike bigger...

SM-Bike units can come close with mobility and range + relentless for its heavy weapons and to top it off theyre the good ole' T5 and S4 when they get into it but then again that sqaud is going to cost a lot more

you really have to go to the centurions to get more shots and the price is way over the WR's

im going to try and think about this today while i go move some crap

Truth is, it is entirely dependent upon what you are shooting. 3 bikes with 2 grav guns and a combi-grav are going to do worlds more damage to terminators, riptides, and wraith knights or AV 12+, than an equivalent points in jetbikes will. OtOH, flamer, heavy flamer, and combi-flamer have exceptional ability to damage T3, 5+ save dudes in 4+ save cover.

My point was that blanket statements like that are utterly worthless and only serve as hate against an army and to stir up hate against an army.

[Mr Mystery]

All horses for courses and different strokes for different folks.

Wind riders pack a punch, but cannot take it in return. As per my earlier example, basic, they're a pain but manageable for your opponent. Packing lots of upgrades, and they become a choice target in the early game.

[Path Walker]

The problem is the assumption from those crying foul is that Windriders aren't easy to kill, but they really are, you move them badly and they get caught by the wrong thing, or pretty much anything, and they'll die easy enough, they're T4 and 3+ with 1 Wound, their units are big enough to absorb losses.

[Defenestratus]

LOL Recasters are running pre-sale specials on jetbikes.

Buy them in bulk and you get a better price.

Pretty smart.

Next GT you go to, scratch some paint off of those jetbikes to make sure they're not recasts!!! :P

[Arkhan Land]

Truth is, it is entirely dependent upon what you are shooting. 3 bikes with 2 grav guns and a combi-grav are going to do worlds more damage to terminators, riptides, and wraith knights or AV 12+, than an equivalent points in jetbikes will. OtOH, flamer, heavy flamer, and combi-flamer have exceptional ability to damage T3, 5+ save dudes in 4+ save cover.

My point was that blanket statements like that are utterly worthless and only serve as hate against an army and to stir up hate against an army.

A combi grav is nice but then your down to two grav-guns for the rest of the game so its really a turn of unloading, max range of 12 inch move then 18 inch shot, versus a 12 inch move running with fleet, and then 36 inch shot, or the ability to use the run move to try and get back out of range after shooting. The big tough targets are easty fodder for many other specialized eldar units, versus SM units kitted out with Gravs/Melta Guns/Combis are more on my view of specializing units when I put together my army. Unless I pay the Bike-Tain tax Im limited in how many bikes I can take as troops. This is something I really hope possibly gets worked on the SM codex, the ability to take 5 man bike squads as troops sans Cap'n.

and here where for me it gets tough to compare those two. Two armies each with an equal number of these sqauds engages: The Bikers will wound on a 5+ to the Windriders, the Windriders will wound on 3+ on the bikers. the bikers get better armour but, and this is also assuming of course one cant get the drop on the other, easier done for the jetbikes with 48" effective range compared to the 30" range of the marines.

as a person who fields bikes with SM and eldar jetbikes its a lament of mine how effective they are mostly because in the rine codex fielding as many bike sqauds as I want to requires either sacrificing a fast slot or taking a captain on a bike in addition to an HQ choice like a librarian that I view as being more needed in todays gaming enviroment, as supposed to being able to field some windriders outright no strings attatched with three SC-ed units clocking in at 243 points leaving me all my other options still open.


one more sort of stranger thought: if the marines can get the drop on the unit they bike up on, at a 24" effective range, scouts bikes with launchers cost 69 points, and although you have two dudes firing at BS3 its still two shots S6 AP3 which is a much more damaging prospect than the Cannons, and unlike the Combi-grav will keep going till games end. though once again it requires dedicated fast biking or the bike leadership tax, and for them using infiltrate to outflank getting the drop can be fairly easy.

btw i realize I said get the drop, a lot by which I mean using tactical cunning to avoid a round of incoming fire

and im not trying to provoke any hate, in case you didnt read my post I dont think it had anything I view as being any sort of a hateful or negative tone. I think each and every one of the codices I have is going to get some awesome retarded crap and im somewhat excited for it, im already sort of mesemerized by in one week the arrival of several new gattling weapons and torrent weapons in normal 40k so I guess maybe if you have such concerns/negative attitude you can realize from writing tone when its there or not.

[ShadowcatX]

Which recasters? Zuchani? (Or however you spell his name...)