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  1. #11
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    at 150 you'll get more of a feel for the game.

    As to the list, its better, but you still are very light on orders. I know that to new players Order count doesn't seem as important, but wait until you run into a highlander list running 15 orders at 150 pts (Yes they can do that and yes it is brutal EVIL!)

    The Key to an infinity list really is the Order count, 5 orders at 150 (and one of those irregular) is a little low, that list is going to be trouble for some things you run into, but you TAG only gets to shoot as often as you spend orders on it.

    that list you have is paying a lot for 3 tricks, which is probably to many. I'd drop the Uberfalk commando's and take a pair of alguaciles, that gives you 2 regular orders to fuel the tag instead of the 1 irregular the uberfalk generates.
    You also maintain the good combo the custodier and Iguanna make with the hacking plus and repeater.

    For an idea of what I mean about order efficiency check this out at 150.

    CHA
    William Wallace (Lt)
    Uxia (Specialist)
    3x volunteer (2x rifle, 1x chain)
    2x Cateran (2x T2 rifle)
    2x Highlander chain rifles

    G2
    2x Highlander chain rifles.

    now that list has issues namely the obivous Lt in WW (Who makes all the orders regular) and the extremely impetuos highlanders.
    But its puting out 15 orders a turn.....thats scary.
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  2. #12

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    Cheers daboarder.
    Being totally new to this and finding the rule book a tad confusing, could you give me an easy breakdown of which units give orders and how they get more. How does that one get 15 etc. Cheers pops.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popsical View Post
    Cheers daboarder.
    Being totally new to this and finding the rule book a tad confusing, could you give me an easy breakdown of which units give orders and how they get more. How does that one get 15 etc. Cheers pops.
    Yeah no worries, I wouldnt worry about that 15, its a very extreme example and it only really works because its a very specific army style. at 150 most lists will be looking at 7-10 orders.
    At 200-250 pts you'll want a solid 10 orders
    at 300 you'll likely want to start a second command group with your more ARO effective pieces. So one group of 10 orders and another of 1-4 depending on the list.

    The huge Order swarms I showed you before are laregly specific to ariadna which is a bit of a horde army



    So heres a rundown on how orders work.

    Every "unit" generates an order. This can be one of either two types.
    Regular orders (as shown by that little arrow near the unit logo)
    or
    Irregular (a squiggly line in the same place)

    Regular orders go into the order pool and can be spent on any troop in the same combat group. so if you had 5 regular orders you could spend all 5 on one model, one on each of your 5 models, 2 on one, 3 on another etc etc....

    Irregular orders however can only be spent on the unit that generates said order. so if you had 4 regular and 1 irregular, the irregular can only ever be spent on the unit that owns it, the others go where they want.

    Then you have impetuous orders: these are additional orders that certain units have. (represented by a curved long arrow to the right of the other order symbol in their profile) These orders come in two flavours, regular and extreme. Regular imetuos do not have to be used, but extreme ones can only be canceled by spending a different order upon them.
    Impetuous orders are tied to the unit that generates them, and must be spent before your other orders. They force the model that has them to move directly towards the closest enemy model with at least their first short skill.

    Then it gets really confusing where you have units like the Uberfalk, where all 4 models generate a shared order, but can be activated and move together by spending only 1 order on the group as a whole.
    This omes up in G-synched models (like the uberfalk) Link teams (sectorials) and coordinated orders (use command tokens)


    EDIT: as to that specific list I showed you, well the Highlanders generate an irregular order each and an impetuous order, they are what is known as a warband, very cheap, very fast and largely disposable because their order cannot be shared by the rest of the group.

    The Caterans also generate an irregular order (no impetuos ones though) but becasue they are Snipers they are very effective in the opponents turn and therefore do not need orders to be spent on them.

    Now the trick in that list comes from William Wallace, who takes all those pretty and VERY cheap irregular orders, and makes them regular (so they get spent where I want) when he is the Lt and alive only though.
    it makes for a very specific, very fast and scary list. particularly because those Galwegians charge forward and throw a bunch of smoke templates with their impetuous, before the rest of the army moves with its horde of regular orders.


    EDIT2: It is also worth noting that while that order horde may seem "broken" strong ARO weapons and pieces will tear chunks in the opponents army in their turn without costing you orders. You just need to have a good balance of Active and defensive pieces.
    Last edited by daboarder; 05-05-2015 at 03:01 AM.
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    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  4. #14

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    The thing about Infinity is that the core rules and assumptions the game makes are more important than an individual model's 'power level'. This is based on the fact that weapons are dangerous to everything and certain game mechanics like cover and controlling the board with AROs allow for a tactical rhythm to the gameplay.

    For example, let's take the 150 Iguana list. Besides the Reverend, it's going to have huge problems with board control. The Iguana is a powerful and accurate HMG platform, but it can't take cover and it needs to be centrally placed to take advantage of its guns. Besides your couple of combi rifles you have no way to cover it or support it, so your opponents will be able to smother it with anti-armor shooting in one turn. And once that's gone you've lost half your list and taking apart the rest will be a cakewalk.

    What you need are things like the Grenzer. In fact, the new nomad starter is a fantastic place to get a balanced and useful core squad. Play a game or two with the starter, get used to how Infinity plays with fields of fire and cover and orders, add the reverend custodier and then go from there. It will be much easier on you than trying to invent a force from scratch using only support elements.
    Last edited by vonDietdrich; 05-06-2015 at 12:09 AM.

  5. #15
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    ....Nothing stops a TAG getting cover (unless they are impetuous) I mean thats provided there exists something large enough to give it cover.

    good points on Board control though. This is further evident given that the iguana only has 180 line of sight, so if your opponent slips behind them they can shoot it unopposed.

    Or they can just kill its order generators and dance around its single order a turn.

    Furthermore to emphasize what Von said about any weapon damaging anything in the game. Even the Jotum in cover, which is the toughest thing in the game bar none, can be hurt by a basic rifle. Sure said rifle needs to crit to do it, but the chance is there.
    Last edited by daboarder; 05-06-2015 at 12:11 AM.
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    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by daboarder View Post
    ....Nothing stops a TAG getting cover (unless they are impetuous) I mean thats provided there exists something large enough to give it cover.
    Uh. Remotes, TAGs, vehicles and motorcycles don't benefit from partial cover.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vonDietdrich View Post
    Uh. Remotes, TAGs, vehicles and motorcycles don't benefit from partial cover.
    No, REMs and TAGs can most certainly get partial cover

    impetuous troops and Motorcycles however cannot

    RESTRICTIONS CHART
    Remotes
    Cannot use Cautious Movement.
    Cannot go Prone.
    Suffer a -3 MOD to Dodge, Engage and Change Facing Rolls.
    TAGs
    Cannot use Cautious Movement.
    Cannot go Prone.
    Suffer a -6 MOD to Dodge, Engage and Change Facing Rolls.
    Troops mounted on Motorcycles
    Cannot use Cautious Movement.
    Cannot go Prone.
    Cannot use Climb.
    Cannot Jump upwards.
    Cannot claim Partial Cover MODs.
    Suffer a -3 MOD to Dodge, Engage and Change Facing
    Rolls.
    Impetuous/ Extremely Impetuous Troops
    Cannot claim Partial Cover MODs.
    and that Motorcycle restriction is only while they are ON the motorcycle
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    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  8. #18

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    Ah, it's prone and cautious move that I'm thinking of. Got the Vehicle and TAG rules confused, goes to show I don't use either. My mistake.

    But yes, you will rarely run into a piece of cover that large which also allows you to draw line of sight.

    Also, the MULTI rifle (which is pretty common in this edition) is devastating against TAGs and things with STR in general.

    The main trick to TAGs is that you use them and a secondary threat to force your opponent to split their resources chasing one or the other. But if you only give your opponent one target and they're playing models with anything better than small arms, they'll shred it in one go. That's why TAGs in small games are a one-time trick. Once your opponent knows that you bring TAGs to small games, countering them is typically much cheaper than the TAG itself.

  9. #19
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    and all that is without mentioning hacking
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by daboarder View Post
    and all that is without mentioning hacking
    Yeah, new Hacking in 3rd is just brutal. Hacking Device Plus and Assault Hacking are easily some of the best assets in the game. Combined with an EVO Repeater? Whew.

    My point is, it's not that TAGs aren't playable. Used correctly they can be very strong. They are accurate and usually have great weapon loadouts. They can provide heavy fire support and break through chokepoints, especially TAGs that have flamethrowers. There are few better ways to clear a building or kill an entire fireteam in one go than a TAG with a heavy flamethrower. But the durability and strength of a TAG isn't going to carry the game: you still need a good number of basic troopers who can support it and keep it from being blitzed by a guy with an anti-armor gun during your opponent's turn.

    Typically you can field one light TAG at 200 points safely, and either two lights or a heavy at 300 points. More than that and you're investing too many points in too few models, which translates to less board control, less orders, and a heightened vulnerability to anti-armor weaponry. Individually, TAGs are awesome, but crouching behind a row of bushes to avoid getting blown away by all your enemy's guns is also awesome. This is where Infinity's different from other games, where armor tends to be more awesome than infantry. If someone points a MULTI sniper that was hiding prone behind some cover at your TAG and has a few orders to burn, you can bet that your TAG is going to die (one of my favorite uses of Atalanta, actually). And the sniper will continue to be useful for killing your infantry all over the board after it takes out your TAG too.

    Not being able to go prone or take cautious moves to avoid AROs is a huge detriment to being able to maneuver around cover safely, and if you're not in cover you're typically being shot in Infinity. My (incorrect) assumption about TAG cover stemmed from the fact that all players I've ever seen with TAGs and remotes don't bother hiding them, because of their penalty to dodge and their inability to use cover-based Skills which regular infantry need in order to survive. They rely on the strength of their Armor stat, and mostly that doesn't go very well.

    More to the point, having a couple line infantry, a sniper or heavy weapons guy, and an 'elite' guy is a good basis for a squad when you're starting out. In other words, the starter box. Things like TAGs, melee specialists, or cheap infantry spam just serve to confuse the matter. Focus on the essentials, learn things like how to judge good firing positions and where to position your models to keep your enemy from getting the drop on you. Then once you're comfortable with how the game plays, up the points and add a light TAG to the mix.

    EDIT

    Also, MultiSpectral Visor (MSV) is your friend. Having at least one level 2 MSV model (in this case, Intruders for Nomads) will make your life SO much easier against a lot of match-ups. The Intruder with the MULTI sniper and x-visor is a really, really good pick for Nomads because it lets you safely gain counterplay against a lot of lists that you would otherwise have trouble against. The m-sniper and x-visor are both really good by themselves. Toss in the MSV2 and the Camo on the Intruder and you've got a winner. Do you /need/ to run it? No.

    But it will let you get counterplay against lists with ODD and Camo/TO Camo (which hand out Ballistics Skill penalties to models which are shooting at them). Having it on an m-sniper is a very solid choice that will save you a lot of frustration (in my experience). Plus I like the Intruder model. So if I had to recommend one model for a new Nomads player, it would be that. The multi sniper is strong against just about everything from regular infantry to TAGs, camo is great on a model that almost exclusively uses cover (cover and camo stack penalties to people shooting at the Intruder so it's much harder to kill), and the MSV2 will let you counter a lot of popular models that are designed to engage and kill Infantry while mitigating their chances of doing damage with return fire. (Pan Oceania, Yu Jing, ALEPH, and Ariadna especially make use of those three, but all factions have strong ODD, Camo, or TO Camo models)
    Last edited by vonDietdrich; 05-06-2015 at 02:04 AM.

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