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  1. #1
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    Default Is it impossible to have an intelligent conversation...

    Okay, so with the constant flow of releases, changes to the meta, and "the sky is falling", is it possible to have reasonable discussion about Games Workshop, 40k, or anything to do with the hobby we all know and love? (without some donkey hijacking the conversation with hate.)

    I am really "jonesin' " for just some good conversation about any one of the 5 armies I have started in the past month and a half, but the topics I (and others) have started in the last month and a half have stirred very little response. The discussions about how broken the Eldar book is or how Knights shouldn't be allowed in regular games of 40k generate endless whining and argument. What happened to just enjoying the game...talking tactics...being happy that GW is hitting a home-run as far as release schedule and putting out some really cool models at the same time...

    Is anyone else feeling this way? Or, did I just pick the worst time to get back involved?

  2. #2
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    you know what might help.


    Not starting out posts with a polarising stance and the use of aggressive statements. "whining" and "The sky is falling"


    on a serious note however, traffic has dropped considerably. and most of the conversations are the same thing week in week out by the same posters. this is in part due to the significant shrinkage that the GW community has undergone lately.
    thats partly GWs fault and partly because GW are not the sole contender in the realm of table top wargaming anymore, not by a long shot
    Last edited by daboarder; 05-08-2015 at 06:54 AM.
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  3. #3

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    You know what would also help, if the whiners and GW haters would just not post when they don't have anything good to add to a thread.
    If people played as often as they complained, we'd all have a lot more fun.

  4. #4

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    To be fair, I've noticed that most WIP threads here on BoLS get a minimal response compared to other forums, unless you're posting Golden Daemon standard stuff or are a scratchbuilding genius.

    Probably just a case that most people here have seen a lot of "pretty decent" minis, and so only take time for the exceptional ones. Doesn't make for the best community spirit, IMO. :/
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Okay, so with the constant flow of releases, changes to the meta, and "the sky is falling", is it possible to have reasonable discussion about Games Workshop, 40k, or anything to do with the hobby we all know and love? (without some donkey hijacking the conversation with hate.)

    I am really "jonesin' " for just some good conversation about any one of the 5 armies I have started in the past month and a half, but the topics I (and others) have started in the last month and a half have stirred very little response. The discussions about how broken the Eldar book is or how Knights shouldn't be allowed in regular games of 40k generate endless whining and argument. What happened to just enjoying the game...talking tactics...being happy that GW is hitting a home-run as far as release schedule and putting out some really cool models at the same time...

    Is anyone else feeling this way? Or, did I just pick the worst time to get back involved?
    A few people on this, and most other forums about the hobby, seem incapable of joy, this is a hobby, its something people do for fun, there are a few good wargaming communities out there though, I personally really like Corehammer. If you like hardcore punk and 40k, its a good place, they've always made some awesome t shirts.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowcatX View Post
    You know what would also help, if the whiners and GW haters would just not post when they don't have anything good to add to a thread.
    It'd also help if the whiners and GW apologists would just not post when they don't have anything good to add to a thread.

    See, this attitude that people must "hate" GW if they say anything negative about it is completely ridiculous, really offensive, and, well... either borderline stupidity or trolling. Pick which you'd rather be labeled as, folks. Neither is a good look.

    People have been in my apartment and seen all the GW stuff I have. I still get stuff. I play the games pretty much every weekend. I'm considering getting in some more shelves next week to put more of my painted armies on display while not using them (I'm really digging how my Undead look on the bookcase). have my army books displayed prominently. When I have time to get back into it, I'll be back to regularly updating a site mainly about GW games. I could go on and on... but I think I've made the point.

    You can love someone/something and still be able to point out the flaws, or even hate what they're doing. (I do that with everyone and everything. My closest friend is my closest friend in large part because she's willing to be critical of me in return, telling me when and where I'm doing wrong in a reasoned manner.) It is my love for GW games that causes me to be critical about their business practices, and how those practices seem to have put us in a position where we have a new edition released less than two years after the last one, and we've already got conflicting styles of codex (some are main book plus supplement, some are just one book with all the formations in it; some have new FOC detachments, some have detachments of formations; some are underpowered, some are overpowered; and the pricing is kind of all over, with some new codices being cheaper than older supplements that are the same page count). That creates in-game issues, as well as out-of-game issues, and feels like there's not a clear plan in place at GW. And objectively, that's worth criticizing.

    It's also perfectly honest to point out things like how their sales are down, which meant their profits are also down even while they dropped spending a good bit, and all that at a time when they're introducing more high-priced items and a new edition of their flagship game. That's not a healthy indicator. They just did a whole line to blow up their original flagship game so they can reboot it (after scrapping a lot of the things it already had that people say they want in a reboot). While that initially excited a lot of people, by the end they were left with a lot of unsold hardcovers and a lot of people stopped using any of the new rules introduced... the shine wore off fast. Their moves with marketing and selling those products were all over the board, once against showing a level of managerial ineptness that is rather appalling, and actually managed to piss off a lot of their own managers. You can be excited for the new fluff and all, and still be disappointed at how some of the rules turned out, or how they managed the whole thing. (Also, releasing about $400 worth of books in less than half a year's time alongside a number of kits priced anywhere from $55 to $116 wasn't really a great move, because wallet fatigue does happen.)

    Yes, it *is* impossible to have an intelligent discussion. See, I'm bringing up intelligent points, points that range across the spectrum, and the response is that I "hate" GW because I'm not 100% positive. The response is basically to shut up, not criticize, accept that everything GW does is gold. That is not intelligent conversation. While some people might just be as borderline trolling with their everything-GW-does-is-wrong attitude, people who take an everything-GW-does-is-right attitude are also borderline trolling. Neither adds to an intelligent conversation.

  7. #7
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    Its kinda funny.


    the two longest, most "in depth" posts in this thread barring the OP are Erik's and Mine (Freely admit mine starts with a good chunk of flippancy) But both of us would be attacked as "whiners" by posters of a certain persuasion.

    edit: CG also raises the issue that the Hobby segments of the forum move slow as
    Last edited by daboarder; 05-08-2015 at 08:08 AM.
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

  8. #8
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    In depth isn't the same as length. Move on, find a new hobby and bore off.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    What happened to just enjoying the game...talking tactics...being happy that GW is hitting a home-run as far as release schedule and putting out some really cool models at the same time...
    Well, to answer the "just enjoying the game" part... It's become hard. I have a lot of armies that were built to be fluffy but still reasonably competitive over the years, but in the current set of books, they get ROFL-stomped by so much stuff. You put an army on the table with combined arms, designed to be capable of fighting different things, and then watch it get rolled over. And you see that happen again and again, and the only way to really combat it is to once again drop hundreds of dollars and spend a few weeks assembling and painting, so you have the latest strong units. It gets kind of tiring.

    Last week was the only truly competitive game I'd had in a while. I allied my Khorne Daemonkin with a guy playing Eldar against two Necron players. 2x2, 1500 per player (so 3000 per side). Notice something about that, though? It's all the newest armies, except Skitarii. (The Eldar player also had some Harlequin characters, so throw them in, as well.) The armies were pretty evenly matched, but I just knew that pretty much anything pre-2015 thrown at either side would have a very bad time unless played by a really good player. One Necron player had a unit, I don't recall what they're called or what was in it (my book's at home, so can't look it up), but it was a unit of hard-hitting guys with good S and T, 3+ inv., reroll 1's on saving throws, and of course Reanimation Protocols (which, in larger games get bonuses from the detachment). In order to take out that unit, the Eldar player hit them with Wraithguard guns (Str D flamers), a Vortex cast by a nearby Hemlock, and then me throwing a mass of Cultists (after shooting their flamer and autopistols) and eight Possessed into the unit (the Cultists were so I could sacrificed the Champion for points). In the end, the Cultists were mauled and ran, the Possessed took a few casualties, and it took a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage getting done with a unit that'd been sticking around too long, who came in and took out the two characters that were still kicking. (Oh, and it took some Eldar Ld reducing shenanigans for the big Warrior squad holding up the Bloodthirster to break... man, not having Stomp sucks for him.) I was also saved at times by dice luck, like one guy's inability to roll a penetrating result on my walkers with his death ray.

    So yeah, that was actually a fun game... but it was the latest books using all their tricks going at each other. Relatively level playing field, with the Daemonkin being the weakest of the bunch, as expected (but Khorne blessed me after I nicked myself by accident and took the opportunity to christen my Khorne dice... hey, you would do the same, don't judge me!).

    I know that if I sent my Marine "tactical" force against those guys, it'd be a very bad day. Ditto for my Orks. And when the price of continued admission is so high, you can't really enjoy the game when you keep getting mauled because you're not spending yet more money on the latest toys.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Setzer View Post
    hey, you would do the same, don't judge me!).
    Ill be honest....I wouldnt....but thats more because I play Nurgle and Slaanesh.....and EWWWW!
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

 

 
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