What if all Dreadnoughts were Monstrous Creatures?

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Pondering my Kastellax pre-order, I've rather belatedly realised their Mechanicus Dreadnought equivalents in terms of role.

And like Wraithlords, they're Monstrous a Creatures rather than Walkers.

This of course makes them a bit more resilient than the often rather lack lustre Dreadnoughts, which to my mind never seem to punch their weight.

So what if all Dreadnoughts and equivalents were made Monstrous Creatures?

[Arkhan Land]

personally I secretly harbor a desire for a "Monstrous Infantry" category that sort of bridges the two

personal flavoring:

Wounds versus armour, which I think is already the popular winner - Some sort of seperate dreadnought and seperate walker basic S and T boost similar to the wording of a jetbike/bike, which is worded and then adjusted in each entry. Walkers +3, Dreads +5

Invul Save for Dreads - RT used to have em, then they dissapeared, we need em back thank you. I dont think walkers should get them. They should vary from a 5+ (your rine and eldar dreads) to a 6+ (Orks, etc)

HOW with AP 2 - theyre made of metal, this isn't a headbutt from a big-wolf or getting bumped by a bike tire, this is big piece of metal.

Skyfire at BS 2 - I feel like an infantry pointing a weapon that weighs a ton trying to hit a moving target is truly a rough chance, versus a big metal dude with some element of a targeting system should have a slightly better chance of popping a bird, though not the same benefits as confered to a skyfiring weapon/weapon system.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

I think the issue goes beyond Walkers/Monstrous Creatures - the game might really benefit from a reevaluation of how Vehicles work. A lot of the conventions surrounding Vehicles feel like awkward compromises of 1st/2nd edition rules.

Quite a few awkward little idiosyncrasies beyond Walkers/Monsters are present - the weird contrasts being Flying Monstrous Creatures and Flyers, how Chariots were once just a buffed statline, were a one-man Transport in 6th and have now moved onto their 7th ed incarnation, the flip-flopping of artillery etc.

Perhaps remove the unique vehicle statline format, and add in rules along the lines of "Cannot be Locked in Combat", "Weak Rear Armour" etc.

[Djbz]

I wouldn't like Walkers being made into monstrous creatures.
Monstrous creatures die so easily when I use them.
My Flesh Tearers force has a pair of Furioso dreadnoughts and their worst ever performances are still better than the best any monstrous creature has done for me.

[Dave Mcturk]

I wouldn't like Walkers being made into monstrous creatures.
Monstrous creatures die so easily when I use them.
My Flesh Tearers force has a pair of Furioso dreadnoughts and their worst ever performances are still better than the best any monstrous creature has done for me.

'vehicles' are immune to poison ! the 'hybrid' issue has long been an unresolved problem !

wraithlords die like drowning kittens -

we've boosted 'monstrous creatures' to a +1 to their armour save v poison and boosted ALL vehicle front armour values by +1 ...
wont work in open competition, but as a house rule its made vehicles and mc more usable and 'fun' in the current codex field where everybody and its/his/her dog seems to have an ap2 weapon.

[Lexington]

I've been thinking about this, too - specifically, in regards to the piles of Killa Kanz and Deff Dreads I own, which might as well not exist for playability.

An easy solution I've run through would be to treat all Walkers (tho not Super-Heavy Walkers) as Monstrous Creatures, with a Toughness value based on their front armor, starting at T5 for Front Armor 10, and going up one-for-one afterwards. So, FA 11 becomes T6, FA 12 becomes T7, etc. Wounds would be equal to the number of Hull Points. Armor save's a little trickier - either 2+ all around, or 3+ for the weaker armor (currently 10 - 11), and 2+ for everything else. Pretty easy system overall, with a few loose ends - Extra Armor, fr'ex, but I'm pretty sure you could fix that up. Did a quick survey of existing "Monstrous Walker"-type models (Dreadknight, Wraithknight, Riptide), and the points seem to at least vaguely line up. Given GW's...lackadaisical approach to rules writing, "vaguely works" is sometimes the best thing to be hoped for.

[Katharon]

I've been afraid of this trend ever since the Grey Knight's Dreadknight was released. I think the idea that Dreadnoughts would stop being walkers and become MCs is disturbing. Instead, I think simply re-balance how walkers take damage would be better. A special rule perhaps that makes them impossible to suffer an explodes result? Similar to how Super Heavies suffer D3 HPs?

[CoffeeGrunt]

So my AV12 Sentinels become T7 3+ W2 for only 40pts each? Seems mighty fine to me.

I don't think a sweeping change is going to work so easily, we need to look at the nature of vehicles and change how they work. That said, a tank should be a different kind of target to a squad of Infantry, and that's actually one of the aspects I like about 40K. If my Leman Russes just become high-T Infantry it really takes away from their flavour.

[YorkNecromancer]

I think if they stay vehicles, Dreadnoughts need either heavier front/side armour (to represent their role as close-assault vehicles) or more hull points (to represent their ability to 'roll with the damage', maybe?)

Honestly they'd be much better as Monstrous Creatures, but I don't think you'll see the slightest difference in the new Marine codex. They'll be the same as they've been for like, three codicies in a row now.

[Cpt Codpiece]

I think if they stay vehicles, Dreadnoughts need either heavier front/side armour (to represent their role as close-assault vehicles) or more hull points (to represent their ability to 'roll with the damage', maybe?)

Honestly they'd be much better as Monstrous Creatures, but I don't think you'll see the slightest difference in the new Marine codex. They'll be the same as they've been for like, three codicies in a row now.

Once they release a new model, we will see the switch