Super Heavies, Challenges, and Stomps.

[Mr Mystery]

How do.

Another question which I've not found a straight answer to in the rules - though that is not to say it's not there, just I haven't found it.

Imperial Knights can make Super Heavy Walkers characters, and this of course means I can issue and accept challenges.

Now, so far so good.

When fighting in a challenge, any excess wounds caused are dished out to the poor saps unit.

Again, fairly straight forward to this point. Hurrah.

Except....lets say I assault a unit of Chaos Cultists. Their champion has to challenge, and being a single model, I can't actually refuse the challenge.

Stupid Cultist Champion, you go squish now..... Roll on the Strength D table....I can do a lot of wounds potentially.

Yet, that's wound multiplication on a single model. Sense would seem to suggest these don't carry over, but the additional hits would.

Quick example (don't have book to hand, so numbers approx.).

I score 4 hits on the Champion, and all four do wounds. The first hit and wounds is of course to remove his scabby little heretic head from the general vicinity of his shoulders, doing him in. Doesn't matter if I've rolled for multiple wounds - it's the base (emphasis mine) wounds that carry over, not the multiplied.

So this would mean three unfortunate Cultists also go squish, regardless of how many wounds those hits multiply into.

Then comes the Stomp.....

Cultist Champion is very, very, very ded. And I stomp at I1......

As the challenger has been squelched, do I then work out the Stomp against the unit, or do I forgoe it as essentially the unit I was in combat with (the Champion) is gone?

[Subexarch]

The poor,arrogant little squirt is dead by I1 so I'd say your out of targets and would not get to stomp.

How do.

Another question which I've not found a straight answer to in the rules - though that is not to say it's not there, just I haven't found it.

Imperial Knights can make Super Heavy Walkers characters, and this of course means I can issue and accept challenges.

Now, so far so good.

When fighting in a challenge, any excess wounds caused are dished out to the poor saps unit.

Again, fairly straight forward to this point. Hurrah.

Except....lets say I assault a unit of Chaos Cultists. Their champion has to challenge, and being a single model, I can't actually refuse the challenge.

Stupid Cultist Champion, you go squish now..... Roll on the Strength D table....I can do a lot of wounds potentially.

Yet, that's wound multiplication on a single model. Sense would seem to suggest these don't carry over, but the additional hits would.

Quick example (don't have book to hand, so numbers approx.).

I score 4 hits on the Champion, and all four do wounds. The first hit and wounds is of course to remove his scabby little heretic head from the general vicinity of his shoulders, doing him in. Doesn't matter if I've rolled for multiple wounds - it's the base (emphasis mine) wounds that carry over, not the multiplied.

So this would mean three unfortunate Cultists also go squish, regardless of how many wounds those hits multiply into.

Then comes the Stomp.....

Cultist Champion is very, very, very ded. And I stomp at I1......

As the challenger has been squelched, do I then work out the Stomp against the unit, or do I forgoe it as essentially the unit I was in combat with (the Champion) is gone?

[Mr Mystery]

More or less what I was thinking.

Though I should explain my thought process is very much skewed by Warhammer's Challenge rules, where nothing carries over in terms of wounds, but you can pile up the combat modifiers, and keep going even when the opponent is dead at a given I step.

[Reldane]

Okay having read the rules on pg 102, no where does it say that a model in a challenge can't make attacks once their opponent is dead, the rules do mention what happens when one party of the challenge is dead, but makes no statement to say no further attacks can be made.

"when one of the combatants in a challenge is slain, regardless of Initiative step it is, the challenge is still considered to be on going until the end of the phase for the purposes of outside forces"

(outside forces pg130: "whist a challenge is ongoing other models locked in the combat can only allocate wounds..." and therefore isn't relevant in this case.)

So in this example, even if the cultist champion was slain by the Hammer of wrath attack at I10 the knight should still make its attacks at regular I against the WS and T of the now slain cultist champion, but allocating them to the nearest enemy model. finally at I1 the knight can make its d3 special stomp attacks.

[Mr Mystery]

Except the poor Cultist Champion would be removed, provided he got a Reaper Chainsword to his face, went squelch at I4 step, so there is no one left 'in combat' for the Knight to tap dance on.

I think.

I need to double check when casualties are removed from the board....

Yes, I'm a bit rusty on the rules!

[Reldane]

except the knight is still in combat. the rules for challenges don't remove them, instead the merely say that they roll to hit and to wound against the other party's WS and T and that wounds must first be assigned to that model. its not like a challenge in fantasy where it can for most purposes be taking place in an alternate universe from the rest of the fight, nor is it that overkill splashes onto nearby models.

it follows all the normal rules for close combat, except with regards to ws and t of mixed units and has slightly different rules for assigning those wounds.

[JMichael]

You can stomp units not engaged in CC as long as the SHW is engaged with some unit (which it would be, even after the Champion is dead).

[StarWarsDoug]

The Knight would get its Stomp attack at 1. The challenge rules apply to the issue-ance, acceptance, fighting, and wrap up of the challenge. However, the Stomp Rule happens outside those rules...much like hammer of Wrath hit against the first model it charged into on a charge. (Unless you are playing it wrong and applying that hammer of wrath hit to a challenger...) The stomp rule grants an extra attack at the end of the fight sub phase at init 1, if the Knight is in combat. Whether the knight is in a challenge or not, it is clear it is still in combat and as such this special attack would still be triggered. The only rule to allow a Stomp is for the model with the ability to be in combat, and that condition is met.

[Theik]

Considering stomp doesn't mention anything about challenges, I think you'd be able to stomp things even if the guy you are locked in a challenge with isn't dead yet. It just says pick a unit in base contact and start stomping from there. But these are the kind of things an up to date FAQ would be useful for.