Dark Angels Army: Good, Bad, and the Ugly

[Grubbslinger]

Hey guys!
I recently started looking into the next army that I want to make after I get my Imperial Guard up and running (which shouldnt take too long here). At first I thought I was going to do a Tau army but after thinking about it, I decided I wanted something that could have a less of a model count then Tau and be easier to transport. This led me to Space Marines and more specifically, Dark Angels.

Now, I began by looking at a the codex and then looking around to see if there were any forum topics on them. For the most part, I saw stuff saying that the Dark Angels were not holding up in the new ed.

My main question is what are the good, bad and ugly aspects of the Dark Angels? Why do they not hold up?
I am mainly attracted to the Deathwing Company and also the general style of the whole army. Is it possible to use a Dark Angel army but use the Main Space Marine codex for a points base? I dont mean just paint my army like Dark Angels but also use their special character and abilities?

Thanks!

[gcsmith]

The deathwing are probably the ugly. A mix of good and bad. While the armour save is good. The precidence of mech and/or horde armies. means either ignoring your save directly or indirectly through mass shots. IF you wanna do a DA army with marines, use a bike captain, or korsorro, thus bikes are usable as troops. And you can have 2 podding term units, and 1dread, allowing you mass bikes. and/or 2 termies in pods all 1st turn, and as i aint read the marine dex for a while, try taking scout bikers with hormers as troops. Then you have a deadly up in your face turn one army.

[breng77]

DA are generally considered underpowered when compared to other marines for several reasons.

1.) They cost more for the same options. (ex. 10 man tactical with flamer and heavy bolter: DA = 180 points, CSM = 170 points)

2.) Our HQ choices in many cases have a worse stat line (lower WS generally)

3.)We have old war gear. No 3++ storm sheilds, no 2 shot cyclones, few options for Razorbacks,no Land raiders redeemers, old machine spirit etc.


So here are my good bad and ugly for the DA.

Good
-We have old war gear. Unlimited range Psychic hood and old smoke launchers are arguably better than the CSM equivalents.

- Deathwing is probably the best available all terminator army. Only space wolves can also do this but it is more expensive and they cannot deep strike. While a tough army to play and certainly not tier 1 competitive, you can still play it successfully.

-Cheaper Land raider Crusader. We have old POTMS so Extra armor is not needed, and the multi-melta comes included. So no real need to tac onto your 250 points.

-Ravenwing is an interesting take on the bike army. With Fearless bikes, and the availability of either an AV 14 land speeder, or the imperiums only jet bike.

-The ability to combine both terminators and bikes as troops (no other army can really pull this off, Space wolves could try but it would be very expensive to take wolf guard bikes as troops).

- We can take special weapons in a 5 man tactical squad (where as CSM cannot)

-Venerable Dreads are cheaper then in new SM codices (no bs 5 but I would rather pay less)

Bad
-We have old war gear (see above) no good SS, old apothecary rules, no new units from CSM etc..

- Are units are more expensive.

- We have fewer possible competitive builds than the other marine codices.

Ugly
-We have lost a lot of what used to make us special, now CSM can take bikes for troops and SW can take termis so it is no longer something that is particular to our army.

-Most of your "competitive" builds are unforgiving, if you make 1 or 2 mistakes you lose the game by a lot. Both Ravenwing and DW are armies with very low model counts, and no mech to speak of ( mech for DW is 3 land raider which is a bit pricey and Ravenwing has only land speeders if you are playing a fluff based army)

[Tynskel]

The deathwing are probably the ugly. A mix of good and bad. While the armour save is good. The precidence of mech and/or horde armies. means either ignoring your save directly or indirectly through mass shots. IF you wanna do a DA army with marines, use a bike captain, or korsorro, thus bikes are usable as troops. And you can have 2 podding term units, and 1dread, allowing you mass bikes. and/or 2 termies in pods all 1st turn, and as i aint read the marine dex for a while, try taking scout bikers with hormers as troops. Then you have a deadly up in your face turn one army.

Terminators cannot get Drop Pods, both in Dark Angels and in the Space Marine Codex.

Currently, only Blood Angels and Black Templars can get Drop Pods for their Terminators.


Dark Angels have some issues, but can still be rockn'. Overall, they are expensive, making them difficult to use large numbers. However, you specifically stated you wanted small numbers.

This list is decent for a competition:
Dark Angels
1850 Points

HQ 245
Sammael
Jetbike, Apothecary, Banner

Troops 775
Ravenwing Squad
6 Bikes, 1 Attack Bike, 1 Land Speeder Tornado, Power Weapon, 2 Meltaguns (one with Apothecary, one with Banner), 1 Multi-Melta.
Tactical Squad
5 Marines, Meltagun, Powerfist, Plasma Pistol
Dedicated Transport: Razorback
Tactical Squad
5 Marines, Flamer, Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs
Dedicated Transport: Razorback

Elites 425
Dreadnought
Hv Flamer, Venerable, Assault Cannon
Dedicated Transport: Drop Pod
Deathwing Squad
5 Terminators, Hv Flamer with Chainfist, 3 Lightning Claws, 1 Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield

Hv Support 405
Vindicator
Extra Armor, Dozer Blade
Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons

This list gives you decent armor 3 tanks, 2 Transport, and a Dreadnought. 4 Meltas (not so great), A bunch of claiming units: The Attack Bike is always separated.

Sammael has a BS 5 Plasma Cannon, or you could go with the armor 14,14, 10 Land Speeder with Twin-Linked Hv Bolter and Twin-Linked Assault Cannon. Remember, he is not an Independent Character, so you can't have the jetbike join a squad.

[cypher623]

Hey guys!
I recently started looking into the next army that I want to make after I get my Imperial Guard up and running (which shouldnt take too long here). At first I thought I was going to do a Tau army but after thinking about it, I decided I wanted something that could have a less of a model count then Tau and be easier to transport. This led me to Space Marines and more specifically, Dark Angels.

Now, I began by looking at a the codex and then looking around to see if there were any forum topics on them. For the most part, I saw stuff saying that the Dark Angels were not holding up in the new ed.

My main question is what are the good, bad and ugly aspects of the Dark Angels? Why do they not hold up?
I am mainly attracted to the Deathwing Company and also the general style of the whole army. Is it possible to use a Dark Angel army but use the Main Space Marine codex for a points base? I dont mean just paint my army like Dark Angels but also use their special character and abilities?

Thanks!

The good has to be the bikes. Very, very cheap for what they get. Fearless, scout and teleporter homers. Also the bikes are gorgeous, GW went all out on the bits that go with the bikes. If you buy this list, then load up on normal bikers. Don't buy the speeders, too expensive. The only bad thing about the ravenwing is the fact that you have to take Sammuel who is lame and rarely gets his points back in either version. This having been said, I run five squads of bikes, one of them a command. I run four? assault bikes w/multimeltas. The assault bikes are grand. They have busted open loads of big nasty tanks for me, the multimeltas are awesome. When I get first turn I try to scount and assault first turn; expecially against the mech heavy armies; they don't know what hit them. If I lose first turn or surrender it, I still turbo boost so that I can have my 3+ cover save vs. shooting.

The army is very, very mobile. You can put your bikes on one side of the board and zoom them over to the other; totally wrongfooting your opponent. You do need to include some sort of teleporting reserves. I usually add a grey knights brother captain with a hood, stops me from getting lashed to death.

[DarkLink]

Basically, Dark Angels are Space Marines, minus a few minor (but nice) options and units. The also get Terminators as troops, potentially.

It's not really a fair tradeoff, but Dark Angels aren't nearly as bad as many people make them out to be. They just aren't as good as vanilla Space Marines.

Personally, I think they could have just let vanilla Space Marine Captains in terminator armor make Terminators count as troops and included a few special characters. In actual armylist terms, that's about the only thing that really separates them from vanilla Marines, now.

[RocketRollRebel]

I say go for them! They make a great underdog army which makes me like them more. Not many people are still playing them and Deathwing armies are pretty awesome.

[Grubbslinger]

Thanks for all the responses, they have really helped.

I think I will go for them. I play Imperial Guard now so I am use to working for a living I just like the fluff and concept of the army, plus having some bike squads with terms as troops choices sounds really awesome to me especially if I can deep strike the terms.

[Sonofthelion]

One thing that i think might be worth thinking about is that the techmarines in the DA book have 2 wound they may be about double the price with the servo harness but there might be some potential there considering that they do not even take up a force orginization slot, besides that i think that most of the problems with the DA book could be fixed by a simple errata by allowing the use of the updated SS and new points values for the tac squads and the new capacity for the land raider would make them much more competative, personally i dont approve of people using the new space marines codex to represent DA armies but thats just me

[Aenir]

the Techmarines are100 points with Servo-Harness plus he can get dedicated transport