Servant of the Ruinous Powers

[Fueldrop]

Do not start Chaos, saves you a lot of grief as they are nowhere near the background suggests it and loyal Space Marines are just better and cheaper.


Nothng. You don't even have different Legions.

Since he's already got 80 models or so, telling him to scrap his army for another one might be a bit of a bad choice.

However, since we're probably going to be doing a bunch of friendly games rather than the tournament circuit, a bit of house-ruling might be workable.

Given the Night Lords fluff how does this sound:

Terror Tactics:
Units with this special rule gain the Stealth USR until they either shoot, manifest a power, or strike in melee. If they lose this stealth by shooting, then for that shooting phase their weapons gain the pinning special rule. If they lose this stealth by manifesting a power then any leadership check related to powers manifested that phase, or due to casualties inflicted by powers manifested that phase, are made at -1 Ld. If they lose this stealth during the close combat phase then they gain the fear special rule for that phase.

Terror tactics is possessed by Night Lords Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Terminators, Chaos Chosen, Chaos Lords, Chaos Havocs, Chaos Raptors, and Chaos Sorcerers.

Thoughts?

[Charon]

Depending on the models he already has I would suggest just using the space marine codex with Ravenguard Chapter Tactics. Way more accurate than anything the chaos codex has to offer.

[Fueldrop]

Depending on the models he already has I would suggest just using the space marine codex with Ravenguard Chapter Tactics. Way more accurate than anything the chaos codex has to offer.

That's an option I'll discuss with him. It does sound pretty good all things considered.

[0rph3u5]

Fluffy Night Lords are possible with the current CSM-dex but not very efficent (not the dex fault, the fear usr is crap), using the CrimS-supplement improves on this (Volw is a very tiny sacrifice IMO)

I haven't followed the loyalist dex as closely as I should (mostly play Eldar/Harlies/Dark Eldar these days) - but the advice to go with RG sounds solid to me

(of course you could always house-rule that he get the Legion-tactics from HH: Massacre instead of VoLW, those are awesome)

[Fueldrop]

It's sad when a codex is considered completely unable to stand on its own merits.

[Lord Manton]

It's sad when a codex is considered completely unable to stand on its own merits.

Yup. As soon as I heard smurfs could take vehicles in squadrons, I'll admit I thought about picking it up for Iron Warriors. IW are undivided, abhor mutation, and don't necessarily do the whole daemons thing. So honestly, I can't think of any solid reason as to why I shouldn't use the loyalist 'dex. It's pretty sad TBH.

[Fueldrop]

Honestly, I think that chaos veterans should be at least WS 5 BS 5, as after 10,000 years of war you'd expect them to be better than their loyalist counterparts due to experience.

I'd love to see Legion Tactica, with each legion having distinct strengths like the loyalist chapters. I'd love to see an expanded list of cultists acting as a mini "Lost and the Damned" dex. I'd love to replace fearless with the Chaos Lord able to flat out choose whether to pass or fail any leadership check they're called on to make, which is replaced based on what god you dedicate him to (Korne gives fearless. Nurgle gives Stubborn, Tzeench would give immunity to sweeping advances (you teleport out of combat rather than running away, possibly even allow you to deep strike to anywhere on the battlefield on any turn you rally. Slaanesh would replace it with It Will Not Die on any turn your squad is fleeing (as you're experiencing fear, a new sensation to most chaos lords, and this reinvigorates you)).

I'd love to have access to some guard vehicles manned by traitors or possessed by demons. Because the only thing that can make a Leman Russ more awesome? Give it the ability to heal itself by nomming anyone nearby.

The dark powers are a serious threat to the galaxy. It's time they started acting like it!

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Well honestly Khorne Daemonkin are really really powerful in my opinion and are much more forgiving because you get the blood tithe and it accumulates for all units destroyed. It is very fast, and really puts pressure on the opponent. I would recommend him looking into that.

If he has that many models already, take Typhus and make the zombie horde with cultist. I love the CSMs and they do have some neat tricks, and while there are overall better books out right now, there is no reason he can't play the C:CSM plus rumor has it they will be getting some supplement love soon. If he already has a Daemon Prince model just .PDF Be'Lakor or Cypher, both are free with a quick search and add pretty neat advantages to the overall book. Same thing with all those Hell Brutes. Sure they are crazy and unpredictable, but their formations are free via .PDF as above and an AV12 insane dreadnought with a 3+ cover save is actually quite fun.

As far as night lords go, I wish they had stealth naturally, but they don't need it. They are more about quick strikes, hit and run would've been my choice, but wish listing aside, if you are playing for fun and no one cares, then play how you want, rules can be more of a guideline in 40k because forging the narrative and having fun are what 40k is really about.

There are some really bad rules in the C:CSM like your champions always having to issue and accept challenges, which You can house rule that you don't, or you give the champion a mini boost, I.e. Hatred/WS5 +1 A in challenge etc. The Boon table is really fun, until you roll Spawn Hood or Dark Apothesist on your warlord...

Overall C:CSM is a really awesome army aesthetically, convertibility, and more options and flavor than many other codices. I'm pretty critical of the dex at times, but overall that doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing it, or have fun list building.

A few more final thoughts for your friend:

Don't feel discouraged reading some of the responses, enjoy your toys, and Wacky things happen when dice are involved!

[Lord Manton]

Slaanesh would replace it with It Will Not Die on any turn your squad is fleeing (as you're experiencing fear, a new sensation to most chaos lords, and this reinvigorates you)).

This I think would actually be an awesome rule. Seems very fluffy, but pretty powerful when I think about it.
Chaos do need to be a bit better, but I think the real diversity is what is lacking. I would hope that Chaos get a similar treatment to Space Marines. There are so many traitor players out there, you really need something to draw them in. Khorne Daemonkin was a good start, but I don't foresee a Tzeentch daemonkin like everyone thinks is coming. But if we could get something to first make each of the gods play well, and then the legions too. I think we need to play Horus Heresy, us Chaos folk :P

[angkor what?]

You can do all of this its called Imperial armour 13


EDIT:S sorry this was directed at a particular reply but I must of missed the quote