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View Poll Results: What is happening to LotR SBG?

Voters
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  • It's dead.

    34 40.00%
  • It's dying.

    26 30.59%
  • WotR is just being a glory hog for the time being.

    15 17.65%
  • It's still going strong, and ChaosLord127 is just in a non-enthusiastic area.

    10 11.76%
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  1. #1

    Default LotR SBG: A dying hobby?

    Alright fellow Loungers,

    Here's a question. What is your take on the decreasing interest that GW is having with the original Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game? Nothing new has been coming out for it as of late, unless it is directly connected to War of the Ring, so is it going to fade quitely into the shadows while WotR takes over? Or is it just because WotR is new enough that it is getting all the glory?

    Lately, it seems that there are less and less articles in White Dwarf about SBG and more and more about WotR... It makes me worry. I am having a hard enough time finding fellow players of SBG, and my Isengard force is gathering dust. So what is your take? Is SBG dead, or just pushed aside for now?

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosLord127 View Post
    Alright fellow Loungers,

    Here's a question. What is your take on the decreasing interest that GW is having with the original Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game? Nothing new has been coming out for it as of late, unless it is directly connected to War of the Ring, so is it going to fade quitely into the shadows while WotR takes over? Or is it just because WotR is new enough that it is getting all the glory?

    Lately, it seems that there are less and less articles in White Dwarf about SBG and more and more about WotR... It makes me worry. I am having a hard enough time finding fellow players of SBG, and my Isengard force is gathering dust. So what is your take? Is SBG dead, or just pushed aside for now?
    If you've got a WotR army you've got a SBG army as well so in pure business sales terms why push a game that effectively comes free with WotR. Push WotR with the added bonus that you can play SBG if you want to. That way you sell more minis and people buy the LotR sourcebooks etc afterwards (although most of the sourcebooks add very little over the core rules imo). GW have added extra rules to the SBG in WD recently, there was a section on the new Galadhrim and stormcallers etc a few issues ago but I take your point most coverage is of WotR.

    I think GW need to approach the SBG kinda like they do with Apocalypse for 40k. It's something you can play to change the scale of the normal game. I think WotR will become the 'norma'l game (like 40k) and the SBG the occasional mission game.

    Playing the SBG is what made me look seriously at WotR and although I still have most of the defenders of Gondor on sprues or in half painted states I am determined to get round to finishing them at some point... damn work and life getting in the way

  3. #3

    Default

    It is true that a WotR army is a SBG army, but what I was referring to is that WotR is being treated as the main game. I am not sure if this was intentional, but when I saw WotR, I thought of it as merely a "Oh, apocalypse for LotR" expansion, but it looks more like a replacement to me now. Kind of sad, as I was happy with SBG as it was my break from the big battles I have with my gaming group, and I don't have enough money or time to make an army large enough for WotR (maybe 4 units? Donno, don't play WotR).

    I am aware of the Galadhrim expansion, but it would be nice if they continued pushing SBG as well, instead of making it the back-up game. I guess I am just kind of dissappointed that SBG is not the primary game anymore, as I don't have a lot of interest in WotR.
    "All power... demands sacrifice..." ~ Sindri Myr

  4. #4

    Default

    I dont believe that SBG is dying as such, although WoTR is certainly bringing attention to the Lord of the Rings range.

    I think WoTR could be seen as removing support from SBG at some levels, however it is also bringing a large amount of interest towards SBG, and i believe that if the established SBG players really make an effort, it will be possible to capitalise upon this, and strengthen the SBG.

    I think the key to keeping interest in SBG is to be positive, and rather than lament the lack of players in a local group, rather to focus on the strengths of SBG, as a small scale game, highly tactical where every man lost could mean the difference between victory and death.

    In a club setting or local area, i would see SBG pushed as a whole different game to WoTR, a chance to play something focused on a key struggle in a larger battle, for example rather than trying to recreate the whole of the seige of Helms Deep in one game, make it a campaign, a series of small skirmishes that the whole battle could be seen to hinge upon, and then offer the chance to play a WoTR finally at the end of the series. In this way, new play can be brought in, learn 2 games, and build a force they can use with both systems - start with battles involving 30 or less models, and as peoples collections grow, they can work towards a full sized WoTR battle force, let the game become an adventure and grow as its played, rather than being a one off super battle.

    If you want SBG to survive as much as i do, i would encourage you to play to the strengths of the game, rather than trying to run it as a competition to WoTR. The use of scenarios, following the progress of a band of heroes, or of an orc mob as new members rise within the ranks, is where the strength of SBG is. Create a story, and submerge your whole playing group within the story. Let GW know that these are the games you want to play, and they will support them.

    Ultimately though, nothing can kill a SBG faster than by saying, its dying, because that will scare people away, rather than bringing them into what could be one of the best games they will ever play.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Azos View Post
    I dont believe that SBG is dying as such, although WoTR is certainly bringing attention to the Lord of the Rings range.

    I think WoTR could be seen as removing support from SBG at some levels, however it is also bringing a large amount of interest towards SBG, and i believe that if the established SBG players really make an effort, it will be possible to capitalise upon this, and strengthen the SBG.

    I think the key to keeping interest in SBG is to be positive, and rather than lament the lack of players in a local group, rather to focus on the strengths of SBG, as a small scale game, highly tactical where every man lost could mean the difference between victory and death.

    In a club setting or local area, i would see SBG pushed as a whole different game to WoTR, a chance to play something focused on a key struggle in a larger battle, for example rather than trying to recreate the whole of the seige of Helms Deep in one game, make it a campaign, a series of small skirmishes that the whole battle could be seen to hinge upon, and then offer the chance to play a WoTR finally at the end of the series. In this way, new play can be brought in, learn 2 games, and build a force they can use with both systems - start with battles involving 30 or less models, and as peoples collections grow, they can work towards a full sized WoTR battle force, let the game become an adventure and grow as its played, rather than being a one off super battle.

    If you want SBG to survive as much as i do, i would encourage you to play to the strengths of the game, rather than trying to run it as a competition to WoTR. The use of scenarios, following the progress of a band of heroes, or of an orc mob as new members rise within the ranks, is where the strength of SBG is. Create a story, and submerge your whole playing group within the story. Let GW know that these are the games you want to play, and they will support them.

    Ultimately though, nothing can kill a SBG faster than by saying, its dying, because that will scare people away, rather than bringing them into what could be one of the best games they will ever play.

    QTF. I agree with everything Azos has said.

  6. #6

    Default

    I think the SBG is dead. I am a little sorry to say that, but I think it is the brutal truth. After like 7 years of trying to make SBG work it never took off. In our local group we never had more then 3 people who played. GTs never drew more then 15 people. The SBG (at lest in the U.S. I have no real information about our cousins across the pond) is dead. WoTR on the other hand is just taking off. That group of over 200 players who that had less then 4 SBG player? Now we have more then 20 WoTR players and growing, thats bigger then a lot of 40K communities I know of. Remember how SBG GTs never got more then 15 player, we get that many or more in monthly tournaments.

    GW knows SBG is dead, when SBG came out it was "The new big third line we are going to support" then SBG sucked and failed, that line of thought whent away. Then WoTR came out and now WoTR is "The new big third line we are going to support". Financially WoTR is the easy win over SBG, sell 20-30 models, or 200-300 models? Easy to see which one to pick.

    But at the end of the day it comes down to one simple fact (that will piss people off) WoTR is 100 times better then SBG every was. And that sells.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by iamaddj View Post
    But at the end of the day it comes down to one simple fact (that will piss people off) WoTR is 100 times better then SBG every was. And that sells.
    I do have more fun playing WotR than i do SBG, ill admit that. I just dont think its dead, its still kicking because it was also a great system. I think its dead from GWs point of view, but not from hobbyists. Although I think if something isn't done to get SBG back on track soon it will die.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon Knight Of Rhun View Post
    I do have more fun playing WotR than i do SBG, ill admit that. I just dont think its dead, its still kicking because it was also a great system. I think its dead from GWs point of view, but not from hobbyists. Although I think if something isn't done to get SBG back on track soon it will die.
    To me that is like saying Rouge Trader or 5 edition Fantasy is still alive, that they are good systems and should still stick around. They suck, they are dead, and the SBG will soon follow. At the end of the day I think it is much better if the SBG dies. I would rather have all the LoTR players consolidated in to one game, one game with a good, large, undivided player base, rather then a divide between the SBG and WoTR. Not only is this better for the players and the player base it makes it twice as easy for GW to support and do things for. Over all this is much better for the game and the community as a whole.

  9. #9

    Default

    I think that the best way to have gone would have been to make WotR an expansion rather than its own game. Alas, it is not the way it is. I shall cry like a baby for thee, SBG!

    Seriously though, a lot of the greatest moments from the Lord of the Rings is the small and individual acts of heroism and small events. Take Amon Hen. Probably one of the coolest parts from FotR, but it was not a huge army, it was 9 vs 100. A lot of people who might come into the hobby to try and "change history" in the lord of the rings storyline will now just be limited to large battles, such as Helm's Deep, Minas Tirith, Peleanor, the Black Gate, isengard, and Osgiliath. I know that you could reenact the other scenes as well, but would controlling the fellowship as one group be all that accurate? This might not be true though, as I haven't played WotR, but still, sad to see it go. Oh well, I guess we who possess copies of the rulebook could still play SBG. I guess as long as the models and rules are still available, and if I could just get two or more people to start it up, it won't be so bad.
    "All power... demands sacrifice..." ~ Sindri Myr

  10. #10

    Default

    I have dreaded WotR since the first rumor of it for this very reason. Fortunately for my group SBG is still the prefered way to play. If we want to push large blocks of infantry around we play Fantasy (I know they are different systems). The joy of LotR for us is the ability to make those heroic stands and small skirmishes where every model can move on his own and make a difference...

 

 
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