Loving the people upset about warhammer AOS

[Mr Mystery]

There's definitely a cultural thing going on. My friends and i saw the silly rules and thought "Ha! That's hilarious" whereas the American response seems to be "Silly rules? Game over man! Game over!".

You mean you don't want to play a game where your pride is on the line every single time and it's all super serious all the time???



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One of these has adopted the feel of AoS. The other is the internet.



Please note. Relative genders in pic not actually relevant.

[40kGamer]

Some insightful thoughts on the game from an actual Game Designer. Design fans will recognize Mr. Tuomas Pirinen.

Tuomas Pirinen, Brutal Deluxe Game Design
3 hrs • Edited •

WARHAMMER AGE OF SIGMAR -PRODUCT DECONSTRUCTION
Disclaimer: all the thoughts and opinions here are my own, and do not reflect the official line of Games Workshop in any way, shape or form. I've not worked for GW in over a decade. I reserve the right to be completely wrong about this.
OK, there is no way I can skip this, I've been buried with requests to write what I think about the new Warhammer: Age of Sigmar rules. Better get on with it then.

OVERVIEW AND PRODUCT STRATEGY
I've spent a fair amount of time reading the rules for Warhammer: the Age of Sigmar, and the associated War Scrolls, and I've gone through the miniatures range and the background.
Key takeaways: Free, much streamlined rules with visually stunning (if 40K-ish) models that are very expensive speaks to me of a strategy: with these rules, many more new people can try the game and grasp the rules rapidly. Some of those will like the game, and a portion will be able to afford the cost associated with it, and without points limits on the armies, they can spend as little or as much as they wish on the game.
I see that the new miniature range will attract many collectors, and perhaps a fewer gamers -possibly a valid approach, business-wise.
All in all this targets a very particular kind of consumer: Wealthy, social, and focused on collectability of very high-quality designs -very much the Apple tactic. It is a huge gamble to see if this is tactic works. It may also be that a completely new world will allow GW to target a new breed of gamers.
To understand the shift in the game it is important to see that many things are in play here that your average hobbyist does not need to care about: the shelf space in the shops (Warhammer always took massive amount of space), the spiralling cost associated with making a physical product, the intense competition from both physical and digital games and the rise of 3D printing in the near future.

MINIATURES
When it comes to miniature sculpting, the rigid unit hierarchy of classic Warhammer limits them, which was always problem when compared to 40K. Thus I am not surprised to see the round bases and much larger models with far more articulation. They are eye-catching and have been made with collectability in mind. They also are so complex that the immediate danger of 3D printing will have been averted at least for a while.
Overall, many of the miniatures are stunningly well made, and I doubt another company can match the sheer intricate detail of these anytime soon. Whatever people like the designs themselves is another matter, but they do that that modern western design vibe. As always, a matter of taste.

THE RULES
The rules themselves have some very nifty ideas, and I am happy that some of the show real creativity and opportunities for interesting situations during game. I do like some of the risk/reward elements such as the charging rules. Some I do not understand, like gaining a major bonus if you won your previous match whenever that may have been. This sets off the game skewered towards one side.
In general, the new rules are streamlined, short, easy-to-absorb and will lead into quite straightforward games. Without tactical maneuvering and flank/back bonuses, the games will most likely become immense killing grounds in the middle, with one side completely wiped out, and the result having a lot to do with luck. I also see some worrying opportunities for cheating, especially with customizing models for extra reach. But I honestly also see a lot of opportunity for fun and tense moments too, in a casual gaming sort of way.
And those dreaded dancing rules... I am personally not a designer that likes to enforce the players to dance, sing or shout during a game: many gamers are introverted, or have disabilities or health conditions that do not allow them to perform a cha-cha-cha moves in the middle of the game. I see the wish to make Warhammer more social, but I would not have gone this way myself: rather, I would have given the players other rewards than game bonuses for awkward behavior.
All in all, the rules are simplified, streamlined, and clearly aimed at getting as many new people as possible to try out the rules.

THE WARHAMMER WORLD
I am of course sad to see Warhammer world go, as it was a labor of love for so many people for so many years, including me. It is one of the most iconic and enduring fantasy worlds ever created. But I do see some of the logic: the Warhammer world was complete, and a low-fantasy world. In order to bring more fantastical creatures and new armies (without making it impossible to fit all the new models into the Warhammer shops) a clean slate was the easy way forward. Personally hard for me to see, but if the gamble pays off it might well be worth it for GW.
I also hazard a guess that there will be a more advanced ruleset for more tactical and strategic players who have outgrown the 4-page rules. I especially think we will see supplements for magic. Without any further rules development, I am not sure about the longevity of the game. Easy-to-pick-up, difficult-to-master is the Holy Grail of the game design, and I am not quite sure these rules are there yet. To keep customers returning, games need long-term engagement, and that requires more depth to delve into. I think we will see this in the coming months.

CLOSING THOUGHTS
As always, I wish GW and its staff the greatest of success -the livelihood of many families depends on It. Many fantastically talented people work at the Studio and beyond whom I respect more than words can say. I see Age of Sigmar as a huge gamble, and it will be interesting to see if it pays off. I also feel that it may have been a gamble they had to take in one form or another. We might see a smaller playerbase, but very lucrative one to emerge from these rules and miniatures.
Lastly, I want to say this. If you enjoy the new rules and models, hold your head up high: every gamer has the right to like whatever they damn well please. But respect the old guard, they built the hobby into what it is today.
If you don't like the rules, I absolutely get it. Please don't take it out on the people that do like them. As gamers we've never had as much choice and quality to choose from. when it comes to our gaming.
Thoughtful critique and discussion wins over bitterness every time.

(Full link with responses)
[url]https://www.facebook.com/DesignbyTuomasPirinen/posts/1620250038223421?comment_id=1620296701552088&notif _t=share_reply[/url]

[Erik Setzer]

Oh? It's an "American thing?" So when did Games Workshop become American?

They stripped all of the fun gameplay rules (that involved fun on the table, not "fun" as in me having to grow a beard, hold a beer, stand on one leg, look in a mirror, and whisper "war" to my model) from the Orks heading into 3rd edition, and have barely put any back in. They killed off an entire race in 40K claiming they were "too silly" (and even the name can't be considered that silly next to Stormcast Eternal Thunderstrike Brotherhood, or Bloodsecrators, or Skarr Bloodwrath and the Wrathmongers).

They did their best to make their games "super-serious," and won't put that stuff in the new AoS armies they want to sell to people as they get rid of the last vestiges of Warhammer.

But I guess it's okay if they remove all the fun stuff that wasn't just mindless distractions thought up by someone's killed, eh?

[40kGamer]

SQUATS!!!

(erm.... sorry 'bout that, slipped right out)

[Spider-pope]

Oh? It's an "American thing?" So when did Games Workshop become American?

They stripped all of the fun gameplay rules (that involved fun on the table, not "fun" as in me having to grow a beard, hold a beer, stand on one leg, look in a mirror, and whisper "war" to my model) from the Orks heading into 3rd edition, and have barely put any back in. They killed off an entire race in 40K claiming they were "too silly" (and even the name can't be considered that silly next to Stormcast Eternal Thunderstrike Brotherhood, or Bloodsecrators, or Skarr Bloodwrath and the Wrathmongers).

They did their best to make their games "super-serious," and won't put that stuff in the new AoS armies they want to sell to people as they get rid of the last vestiges of Warhammer.

But I guess it's okay if they remove all the fun stuff that wasn't just mindless distractions thought up by someone's killed, eh?

What was the result of stripping all of those things out? A dead game system. Gee i wonder why they might be re-injecting the game with a sense of humour.

And Squats is an infinitely sillier name than even the worst of GW's dodgy names. When you are using a synonym for diarrhea, you've gone wrong somewhere.

[daboarder]

Nice post Gamer

Just wanted to comment on one thing,

Lastly, I want to say this. If you enjoy the new rules and models, hold your head up high: every gamer has the right to like whatever they damn well please. But respect the old guard, they built the hobby into what it is today.
If you don't like the rules, I absolutely get it. Please don't take it out on the people that do like them. As gamers we've never had as much choice and quality to choose from. when it comes to our gaming.
Thoughtful critique and discussion wins over bitterness every time.

This is the wrong way round after a fashion, consistently I've seen posters who have expressed disappointment set upon by those who are extremely aggressive and vocal in the support for this game, the very title of this thread gives that impression (and the lack of a thread attacking anyone who likes AoS). Its what I expect from these particular members of the forum of course but it should still be pointed out. Its not everyone who like the game, but the minority within that group.

edit: On another note, its interesting in that this might actually spur me to make some actual fantasy releases before the lines go dead, i've always wanted a Wood Elf army and once KOW2 drops for free I'll be writing up a list and seeing what I can get second hand off ebay to make that list. then I'll either play 8th, mordheim or KOW.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

"They killed off an entire race in 40K claiming they were "too silly""

That was about twenty years ago. Things change.

Oh, and thanks for posting that! I always liked Tuomas.

[daboarder]

"They killed off an entire race in 40K claiming they were "too silly""

That was about twenty years ago. Things change.

I dont think GW is going to keep the "fun" rules for very long, as mentioned by their representatives they are only for the old factions, all the new factions will have super serious rules.

So they haven't changed, the old armies have just found themselves in literally the same position as the squats all those years ago.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

Change isn't an on-off switch, the culture of the company and their product has shifted several times just in my own experience with it.

[40kGamer]

Nice post Gamer

Just wanted to comment on one thing,



This is the wrong way round after a fashion, consistently I've seen posters who have expressed disappointment set upon by those who are extremely aggressive and vocal in the support for this game, the very title of this thread gives that impression (and the lack of a thread attacking anyone who likes AoS). Its what I expect from these particular members of the forum of course but it should still be pointed out. Its not everyone who like the game, but the minority within that group.

edit: On another note, its interesting in that this might actually spur me to make some actual fantasy releases before the lines go dead, i've always wanted a Wood Elf army and once KOW2 drops for free I'll be writing up a list and seeing what I can get second hand off ebay to make that list. then I'll either play 8th, mordheim or KOW.

Totally understandable and likely his nod to being politically correct. Although he may be seeing hate mongers raging on those who like this system in his circles... but here the positivity police pile on anyone with a dissenting opinion like a pack of rabid hyenas. The atmosphere is more love it or shut the hell up. Very annoying as nothing ever improves when only one side of the coin is represented... the community needs to adopt the Yin and Yang philosophy to flourish... Balance is everything.