Loving the people upset about warhammer AOS

[Mr Mystery]

Thats the worst analogy I have ever read. And i've read more bad analogies than a crab in a wedding dress.

I see what you did there...

Erik, I again invite you to make most judicious use of the Ignore button, seeing as you seem to take issue with everything I say. Seriously, please do. It has health benefits.

Me, I enjoy AoS. No, it's not 9th Ed, yes it lacks some of what made Warhammer an enjoyable game to me.

But hey, as I am fond of saying at work 'It Is What It Is'. Me, I'm looking forward to the future as I always do. As for classical Warhammer? I have every book barring Triumph and Treachery, so I'm good to go not just for the foreseeable future, but the rest of my life, on account said books most certainly are not going anywhere.

Can't play at home for the time being due to very small flat syndrome, but should be getting my promotion in the next month or two (Lord alone knows it's due!) and at that point I'll be actively seeking a larger Nerdcave to accommodate me and my junk.

Until then, local gaming club is anything goes, and other friends have boards at home.

So AoS, even if I hadn't found it to my tastes not one blind bit of difference to me at all. Not. One. Jot.

So to use your elaboration of my own analogy.....I don't give a monkies if you preferred the old burger, because I enjoy the new, and have the skills and resources to make said old burger at home.

People getting all piss and vinegar makes no difference to that.

[Insert_nickname_here]

The other Hyperbole Brigade - those who say everything GW does is awesome, even if they haven't tried it yet, and rabidly attack any dissent - is also tiring. And this thread is part of that Hyperbole Brigade.

Using your example, it's like going to a restaurant with friends, and the staff got rid of a classic recipe and released a new one, replacing, say, a hearty "bistro burger" (using one restaurant's sandwich with that name, it'd be a nice thick burger cooked to your request, with cheddar cheese, applewood smoked bacon, onion rings, and bistro sauce, and pickles if you want) with the equivalent (in all respects) of a Big Mac. Now, sure, plenty of people might like a Big Mac. But you can only take so much of your friend telling you the Big Mac is the best thing ever, and how it's better than the other burger which clearly would have stayed on the menu if it was as good as a Big Mac, and the $25 you're paying for a Big Mac is clearly worth it because it's a niche place to eat, and the Big Mac you can get for $4 at McDonald's, while being exactly the same, can't be as good because it's not made by the right people. If you talk about that old bistro burger being nice, the other friend shouts you down and tells you his Big Mac is superior. If you say anything other than praise for the Big Mac, the friend shouts you down, calls you a negative git, and badgers you about not admitting the superiority of the Big Mac, while also saying that you just haven't tried the Big Mac yet and, if you do, you'll admit it's the best thing EVER... even if you ate a Big Mac right in front of him the day before.

It's not going to a restaurant, getting the same food as before, and someone not liking it. AoS is NOT Warhammer. Not even remotely the same kind of game. Only a person who doesn't even know what AoS is, and hasn't seen any models for it, much less rules, could make that kind of comparison.

Damn you, Erik, I really want that Bistro Burger...

[Xaric]

troll or a experiment see it as you will but as I can tell by it that some people really need to grow up the realism is nothing lasts forever your family your toys your job one day they are there the next they could be gone its called change and change stops for no one you could spend the next 100 years whining and complaining thinking your this special snowflake and everything must go your way when it does not or you could do the thing that humans have evolved over 100s of years. Adapt evolve and move on it maybe harsh of me saying this but its true and the truth hurts unfortunately it is up to the company and there statistics of how they govern there product because you could say this and that and make judgements with little to no evidence of claiming how bad something is when its not going your way but they are the ones with all the data and information that tells them if something is green or red.

Did you also know its good business practise to have half a dozen products down the line after the one product you currently have launched and slowly giving out those product at intervals so your making max profit if you just throw everything out there it gives too much choice meaning less profit because everyone can pick and choose wile if you do 1 bunch of products at a time people are more likely to buy them because there new.

And that there my fuzzy little children is how business is conducted I hope I have filled your grey matter with that juicy knowledge

also a hint it is doing well they made a giant statue of the storm warrior and replaced there old could tell us a number of things one the units of AOS starter set have been selling like crazy possible beating some of there other product line or could say they have made so much profit with the starter sets alone that it bypassed fantasy product line of 8th edition within its quarter

[Erik Setzer]

also a hint it is doing well they made a giant statue of the storm warrior and replaced there old could tell us a number of things one the units of AOS starter set have been selling like crazy possible beating some of there other product line or could say they have made so much profit with the starter sets alone that it bypassed fantasy product line of 8th edition within its quarter

They produced that statue and set it up before they even started taking preorders, so they couldn't know how many there would be, much less have brought in a lot of money.

And at the local GW store, a lot fewer people are lining up to buy AoS than did the End Times books, so I doubt it's already raking in more. Especially as, again, it isn't even officially on shelves.

The statue was put there because they're trying a hard sell on AoS, doing everything they can to push it. No matter how well it does, the Space Marine will be back eventually. For now, they're trying to push the game with people, drum up hype, and show that they're "committed" to it.

If you're going to troll, don't make it so blatantly obvious.

(I'd hope you're trolling, because otherwise it suggests you have a hard time understanding reality, how time and money work, and a lot of core concepts in life... though you might just be extremely young, and have that going as an excuse.)

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Damn you, Erik, I really want that Bistro Burger...

It's quite good, especially ordered medium rare and with a drink like Smithwick's on the side.

[Erik Setzer]

Erik, I again invite you to make most judicious use of the Ignore button, seeing as you seem to take issue with everything I say. Seriously, please do. It has health benefits.

Why don't you do it, then? You take issue with everything I say, since I'm not all sunshine and rainbows about Games Workshop.

I don't care that you enjoy AoS. You enjoy it all you want. But stop telling me and other people that we can't have criticisms of the game, just because *you* think it's perfect. If you must rush out to tell everyone how wrong they are for not bowing at the altar of Games Workshop and firing off the cash cannon every time GW releases something new, then perhaps *you* need to worry about your health, because you're going to be doing a lot of rushing.

I'm still trying to remain optimistic that you aren't a full-on troll like Path Walker. Maybe I'm wrong there.

My health isn't going to suffer from anything you say. Sorry to tell you, you're just not that important to me. The opinion of those closest to me is what matters. And that's part of what bums me about AoS, because the people I'm most likely to want to play games with, because they want a fun, fair experience, absolutely hate AoS, to the point some won't give it a try (and admittedly watching the Charlie Foxtrot that happened at the GW store Saturday didn't help their opinions... imagine the worst players you know getting together all at once to try to figure out how to break the new game). I have a whole army - and half another - sitting on a table at home set up for AoS, and I can't play them, because your opinion isn't shared by the entire world. And maybe you'd like me to pass along your personal view that they're all wrong and stupid. But right now, I have to deal with GW pissing all over this release so bad that I have useless models sitting around until people either find a way to fix the game or... something.

More than anything you can say or do, that's what upsets me. That's where my annoyance comes from. I wanted to give the game a chance, I sat down and spent evenings assembling a whole new army for AoS rather than playing on my PC or XBox, and now it means nothing, and I can't see that situation changing.

But hey, at least if I want to do a GW game with them, we've all got 30K. And heck, at this point, I think it might be cheaper on a per-model basis, but at least people are nice enough to let me use my Chaos Iron Warriors (though, with the exception of Chaos logos, they pretty much look like they would have anyway).

[Path Walker]

I'm still trying to work out the burger analogy.

So, the restaurant stopped selling the burger you liked, and instead now sells Big Macs, and someone says well you should just try the big mac, it's a burger so it's pretty close and you might enjoy it.

And instead you want to rave about how good the old burger was (despite at the time saying the old burger was t as good as the burger before it because it was bigger and you couldn't eat it all) so, they guys saying try the Big Mac or leave the restaurant are the arseholes because they don't see the point in just bleating on about a now defunct burg?

Did I get that right?

[Xaric]

Erik you forget that business also work on predicted sales also no business takes extreme risks that could cause a company to go bust unless they have a plan B because of the investors and there business partners and what not but clearly you know all about how every business works also people lining up local GW store lets not forget we have a wonderful thing called online shopping who does there pre-orders in shops anymore other then older generation or parents... also I hear people have been buying out the WD that came with the free model like crazy so yeah lets say AOS is not doing too well because people don't have the internet nowadays to pre-order clearly if there not in shops pre-ordering it must be doing bad lets not forget you are at about 1 or 2 GW stores or a few retailers that sell miniature's clearly that tells us that everyone go's to those shops you visit...

You say I am trolling but your delusional learn to use your brain and not see things with just your eyes look at how the Wii did vs. ps3 and xbox360 people even said before it was out it was going to do poorly because when they announced the rig set up for it as it was considered poor hardware compared to the ps3 and xbox360 all the fan boys/girls of those two company's just laugh till the day the Wii came out.

The sales not only beat one but beat both ps3 and Xbox together and were talking about a system that went sod the graphics lets focus on the simplistic gameplay that appealed to everyone with a understandable format rather then complexity or appealing to its current demographics... in other words they was thinking like a business and not lets not upset our current fan base mentality yes GW will most likely loose some if not a lot of there current fan base because of the new rules.

Guess what new blood joined the scene even a lot more of the other gender have taken more liking to the new system even older parents who had no interest in such have been taking interest in the new system because 4 page of rules can be understood in 50 secs even if you don't understand them fully having them on hand as a reference is understandable without much time consumption also no rules that go against another rule creating confusion and frustration.

Another thing that did the same thing FF14 many fans was upset they was going to reboot it because of its poor launch but they spent so much time in that game they argued and said if it happens there quitting and what not so the guys at FF14 smashed a meteor into the planet reworked it from scratch and used popular stuff in other MMORPG to apply to it and they successed in remaking there MMORPG mind you paid subscription also very hard mind you with all the F2P MMORPG out there.

So if you wish to call me a troll and live in a world of where you believe if it doesn't go your way you know the right direction every time even if your dead wrong you can keep on doing that or like everyone else who has accepted the new format get on with what the hobby is about and that is having pride and fun in what you do.

[daboarder]

and thus is Erik and the many others who have pointed it out proven accurate.

Hello usual suspects, nice to see your behaving the same as always.

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True, but this thread seems more aimed at the Hyperbole Brigade - those who have ever refused to give anything new a chance, especially if it involves GW.

you do realise you are part of the hyperbole brigade right? Just the other kind, hypocrite as always mystery.

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I totally understand people being put off by WFB getting Squatted, and if we're honest, that's what appears to have happened here. Using the same models with vaguely familiar lore does not equal the same game. So people are pissed, naturally... but instead of contrast and compare (since this "ain't no WFB"), we do all need to move on to judging AoS for it's own merits and flaws... and we can't fully do that until we are privy to GW's full vision which may take weeks, months or years.

For me I'm going to wander over and check out KoW to see what Alessio's put together, in much the same way as I'm following Priestly's newest offering of 'Beyond the Gates of Antares'. Companies and Corporations are ultimately meaningless as everything relies on the artists behind them. Main reason I muck about with GW at all is that Jervis is still hanging out and that Jes Goodwin is arguably the best mini designer of all time. (Well he get's my vote)

I do find it fascinating that every one and their cousin are already proposing points/balancing mechanisms for AoS which indicates to me that as a community, balance is a significant factor. If the latest info regarding GW is correct, they even plan to provide an official balancing mechanic at some point. Really seems weird to me that this wasn't part of the initial rollout but their business practices often leave me scratching my head.

I've been looking at KoW and its looking like a nice community, Im not even entirely sure I'd want to buy some wood elves for it instead of picking up a mantic army......

[Cap'nSmurfs]

FWIW, I'd rather have threads like the other one here where we talk about how much we like something (we who like it) rather than pouring scorn on people who don't, but that's me.

[Erik Setzer]

Erik you forget that business also work on predicted sales also no business takes extreme risks that could cause a company to go bust unless they have a plan B because of the investors and there business partners and what not but clearly you know all about how every business works also people lining up local GW store lets not forget we have a wonderful thing called online shopping who does there pre-orders in shops anymore other then older generation or parents... also I hear people have been buying out the WD that came with the free model like crazy so yeah lets say AOS is not doing too well because people don't have the internet nowadays to pre-order clearly if there not in shops pre-ordering it must be doing bad lets not forget you are at about 1 or 2 GW stores or a few retailers that sell miniature's clearly that tells us that everyone go's to those shops you visit...

You say I am trolling but your delusional learn to use your brain and not see things with just your eyes look at how the Wii did vs. ps3 and xbox360 people even said before it was out it was going to do poorly because when they announced the rig set up for it as it was considered poor hardware compared to the ps3 and xbox360 all the fan boys/girls of those two company's just laugh till the day the Wii came out.

The sales not only beat one but beat both ps3 and Xbox together and were talking about a system that went sod the graphics lets focus on the simplistic gameplay that appealed to everyone with a understandable format rather then complexity or appealing to its current demographics... in other words they was thinking like a business and not lets not upset our current fan base mentality yes GW will most likely loose some if not a lot of there current fan base because of the new rules.

Guess what new blood joined the scene even a lot more of the other gender have taken more liking to the new system even older parents who had no interest in such have been taking interest in the new system because 4 page of rules can be understood in 50 secs even if you don't understand them fully having them on hand as a reference is understandable without much time consumption also no rules that go against another rule creating confusion and frustration.

Another thing that did the same thing FF14 many fans was upset they was going to reboot it because of its poor launch but they spent so much time in that game they argued and said if it happens there quitting and what not so the guys at FF14 smashed a meteor into the planet reworked it from scratch and used popular stuff in other MMORPG to apply to it and they successed in remaking there MMORPG mind you paid subscription also very hard mind you with all the F2P MMORPG out there.

So if you wish to call me a troll and live in a world of where you believe if it doesn't go your way you know the right direction every time even if your dead wrong you can keep on doing that or like everyone else who has accepted the new format get on with what the hobby is about and that is having pride and fun in what you do.

*Yawn* I didn't waste my time reading it all.

Games Workshop doesn't throw a bunch of money out on "predicted sales" because right now they can't afford to make predictions that sales will go well. They've released a new edition of their flagship game, two new Space Marine codices, new armies, lots of new expensive models, the End Time product line (which did amazing at first but rapidly went downhill with interest), and so much more, and yet their revenues are down. If 40K can't bring them more money, there's no reason they'd expect AoS to actually give them a huge jump in revenue. Especially as a lot of their more expensive releases have ended up sitting on a shelf because they didn't realize people aren't interested in, say, paying $125 for a board game without that many pieces and little replayability.

You tell me to "learn to use my brain" but the thing is, I am. You clearly aren't. Your comments make no sense from a business perspective, especially one that's seen loss of revenues two years in a row. If they decided to just assume they'd get a bunch of money from a high-stakes risk, they would be incredibly stupid. And while they've shown themselves to be out of touch and ready to make questionable decisions, I don't think they're on the level of making decisions that are so insanely stupid as to invite bringing ruin to the company. Yet, for some reason, you do.

You know what... let's go ahead and address a couple of your other points real quick, and bring you back to the real world.

The Wii sold as well as it did because it was seriously designed for all age ranges and people, including the price point. The Wii was about half the price of the other consoles - I paid nearly $400 for my 360, only $100 for a brand new Wii - and the games are often 1/3 to 1/2 the price of other games, or maybe $40 as opposed to $60. The Wii is popular not just because it was open to everyone, but because it was also a lot more affordable. Using that as an example with regard to a game that's pricing itself as a "premium" product is... well, let's leave it at "not smart."

As for FF14, people weren't really worried about a reboot. And FF14 was such a mess it needed one. The reboot didn't dumb the game down or anything. The reboot has incredible graphics and plenty of depth of gameplay. It enhanced the existing game. The game that existed was a complete mess. Absolutely no one disagreed with just redoing it. That's a different situation from Warhammer, where a few tweaks could have helped salvage the game.

Seriously, try bringing some real information to a discussion. And if you're going to defend Games Workshop using examples, they shouldn't be examples where someone did the exact opposite of what GW's doing. (Hey, do you want to bring the XBox One into this? You know, the console where they listened to customers and fundamentally changed the system from its intended setup so that it'd match what the people wanted? The one they spent money adding backward compatibility to because the people wanted it, even though they can't charge the people more for that? The console that saw part of it split off to become an optional purchase, and has seen price decreases, and didn't even cost more than the 360 upon release? Because hey, if you're going to pull examples that are opposite of GW, that's a good one, especially as it's Microsoft, who are more universally hated than GW ever will be, and yet *they* did right by their customers.)

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FWIW, I'd rather have threads like the other one here where we talk about how much we like something (we who like it) rather than pouring scorn on people who don't, but that's me.

Positive threads are a lot better. Then even disappointed people might be encouraged to peek in, maybe add to the conversation, and might be converted through positive commentary, rather that, "You don't think this is the BEST GAME EVER? You suck, your family sucks, everything about you sucks!"