Why Does He Stay With Her?

[Alaric]

[removed - off topic related to deleted posts]

Well written York. Agree that Chaos is the worst girl/boyfriend you can imagine. I like the villains more than the heroes usually because they often have a more interesting "why they do what they do" aspect. I actually made a DnD villain based on Oprah because she could be a helluva bad guy. Worked out well too.

Chaos is chaotic, who knew!

Promoted and lookin forward to the next one.

[CoffeeGrunt]

So at the end you play an army of complete morons wich traded their souls away for a lack of supplies.

Because at the end of the day the question is: How do Chaos Space Marines sustain themselves. Everyone is short on supply and Chaos doesnt provide. We love to cite ADBs Nightlords so we learned that every raid does cost more in blood and gear that it actually gets in. And we have permanent infighting.
So either the concept is flawed, there are no Chaos space Marines anymore and they are only imperial propaganda because after 10k years they would have died out at that rate or me must assume that Chaos does indeed provide.

You don't seem to be grasping it.

Why do we work, here, in this day and age? To get money. Some people will work their *** off to stay afloat, barely, never achieving fame or fortune, never doing more than surviving. In fact, the vast majority of us will live like that, paycheck-to-paycheck, hand-to-mouth with some luxuries alongside that.

But we see the rich plastered all over the media. Oh, those guys. Clever or talented, look that lady won American Idol and became a millionairess in a few weeks! Look, this guy thought up this simple but ingenious invention, and now he's rolling in dosh! That's all it takes, guys, just impress the world and make one amazing movie/tv show/book series/game/invention/etc, etc. All it takes, just dig into that brain and keep working, keep working to get the cash to fund it, your big moment, your magnum opus and...

No one cares...but I spent my life on this...I'm bankrupt! On the street, begging for change, Hollywood ain't kind to aspiring artists for sure!

And the people that walk by you will sneer. They'll attribute it to drugs, or weakness, or some other fault. They all have the same dream you had. Some of them might have even shot down your project, stabbed you in the back just to get ahead a little. There you are, broken and forgotten, and they're walking past you retreading their steps. You could warn them, but what does it matter? None will listen to them, they're too smart, too rich, too big to fail. It's humanity's innate arrogance, our disbelief that fate, God or luck would turn around and bring down everything we've worked for in mere days.

It happens every day to hundreds of people. A redundancy here, a broken-down car with a quadruple figure repair bill there. In America, getting injured, which means medical expenses and lost work time.

And the Chaos Gods are the health insurance companies selling their wares. "Look at this loser who went bankrupt because he wasn't smart enough to invest in us. You guys are smart, you know safety when you see it, right? We'll look after you, providing you keep on helping us out and giving us what we need, okay?"

Playing Chaos lets you make a Lord who made it. Who was the 1% that got powerful, powerful enough to threaten the Imperium entirely under their own agenda and volition.

[modelguyicmt]

I don't understand the concept of this whole post.

How could there have been 13 crusades if they would have been out of ammo after the first one?

You really think that there are no armories in the Eye? You're just going to pretend that the Forge of Souls doesn't exist? That each Legion had warships which could resupply entire chapters of marines during the HH? That each Legion had thousands of Techmarines and tens of thousands of Mechanicus allies? That there are Dark Mechanicus Forgeworlds in the Eye, and many others spread throughout the galaxy?

Typhus' Manreaper is not an 'electronic device' it's a ********* DEAMON WEAPON, it CAN'T 'fall apart'. Plaguemarines are imbued with a tiny drop of the power of Nurgle /himself/, they bleed viruses for crying out loud, logic by definition, does not apply.

Anyway, this post is just so pointless and misguided. It's all based on one little piece of fluff from 30 years ago talking about how CSM that go off on their own have a hard time keeping their equipment going and finding ammo- *because they no longer can rely upon the resources of Legion warbands.* In fact, nowhere in any of the CSM codexes does it mention supplies being hard to come by, however there are multiple references to Daemon Worlds and Forgeworlds constructing weapons and war machines.

////If you're out trying to make a name for yourself you forfeit the ability to go to your warband's armory and take bolter ammo. If you're a renegade chapter you forfeit your ability to go to the local forgeworld and ask for a Land Raider. If you're an angsty Night Lord who hates all the other CSM because they're evil and you're just misunderstood, you forfeit the ability to ask for things from Abaddon.

If you're the leader of a warband in the Eye, you most likely have a standing within the feudal structure of the Eye and can bargain for whatever you want, from ammo to Heldrakes to titans.

[Alaric]

I don't understand the concept of this whole post.

How could there have been 13 crusades if they would have been out of ammo after the first one?

You really think that there are no armories in the Eye? You're just going to pretend that the Forge of Souls doesn't exist? That each Legion had warships which could resupply entire chapters of marines during the HH? That each Legion had thousands of Techmarines and tens of thousands of Mechanicus allies? That there are Dark Mechanicus Forgeworlds in the Eye, and many others spread throughout the galaxy?

Typhus' Manreaper is not an 'electronic device' it's a ********* DEAMON WEAPON, it CAN'T 'fall apart'. Plaguemarines are imbued with a tiny drop of the power of Nurgle /himself/, they bleed viruses for crying out loud, logic by definition, does not apply.

Anyway, this post is just so pointless and misguided. It's all based on one little piece of fluff from 30 years ago talking about how CSM that go off on their own have a hard time keeping their equipment going and finding ammo- *because they no longer can rely upon the resources of Legion warbands.* In fact, nowhere in any of the CSM codexes does it mention supplies being hard to come by, however there are multiple references to Daemon Worlds and Forgeworlds constructing weapons and war machines.

////If you're out trying to make a name for yourself you forfeit the ability to go to your warband's armory and take bolter ammo. If you're a renegade chapter you forfeit your ability to go to the local forgeworld and ask for a Land Raider. If you're an angsty Night Lord who hates all the other CSM because they're evil and you're just misunderstood, you forfeit the ability to ask for things from Abaddon.

If you're the leader of a warband in the Eye, you most likely have a standing within the feudal structure of the Eye and can bargain for whatever you want, from ammo to Heldrakes to titans.

Maybe put your money where your mouth is and write a better one then?

[Anggul]

Daemons and the warp. That is how chaos keeps on going. Most of their stuff has been moulded and mutated by the energy of the warp, a lot of it is just as biological as it is metallic, and it's fuelled by (literally) magic. The manreaper appears corroded because it's a daemon weapon of Nurgle. It looks rusted and useless to us, but it's magical, it's infused with warp energy.

Read the Black Legion supplement.

Abaddon knows that he can't win with force of arms alone. Like you say, the Imperials are supplied so much better in that regard, even while beset on all sides by aliens and heretics, from within and without. Abaddon is fully aware of this. That's why his plans revolve around using the power of the warp. He's going to make a conga line of tears in realspace so he can have unlimited daemonic allies. By force of mortal arms alone he cannot win. That's why he doesn't plan to rely on that, but the ineffable power of pure emotional energy and the horrific, reality-bending beings created from it.

The warp doesn't provide in an ordinary material way, in that you are absolutely correct. The Dark Mechanicum provide a lot, but there is only so much they manage to pump out and it's fought and bargained over, the same goes for raids. The warp, however, provides a source of unending pain and reality-twisting horrors which force of arms alone can only do so much against.

[Lexington]

Chaos "is" whatever's useful to the author writing it at the time. Much like the rest of 40K, it's inconsistent. Sometimes, people need it to provide a snarling villain for a pure action story, some want to use it to explore humanity's failings. Those are just two of a thousand thousand permutations might make for a good read. None of them really ends up being wrong 'till GW's IP department says otherwise, and given the things they've let through over the past several years, who thinks that listening to them is a good idea, anyway?

That said, didn't Andy Chambers approvingly link to York's original article on the subject? He's probably got as much to do with the modern incarnation of Chaos as anyone else. Hard to argue with that, I'd say.

[Mr Mystery]

And Yorkie ripped off one of my threads to post his.

Granted his was greatly more eloquent, but still

[YorkNecromancer]

It wasn't deliberate, dear boy. I think we'd probably both just been reading the same comments and getting a little frustrated by them.

[Mr Mystery]

That's what E L James said to Stephanie Meyer

It's alright. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all

[Fueldrop]

Why would anyone join chaos? Ignorance, and desperation.

We know that the Imperium does not educate its citizens on chaos beyond "It's bad". We know life as a worker on a forge world or a ganger in an underhive is pretty awful. So when your neighbor offers you a chance to escape the drudgery and fear for a brief moment by joining up with a "social group"... are you really going to say no? Then, when you're in it snowballs. Any citizen with half a brain knows that the imperium's law enforcement tends to be somewhat indiscriminate, so going to them is an intimidating prospect. Besides, you're not really doing anything that wrong, are you?

Add to that the sunken cost fallacy ("I'm in too deep, I may as well see this through to the end") and the supernatural corruption of chaos itself and you see how it goes.