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  1. #1
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    Default Villains and the theory of narrative.

    The forces of Chaos.
    The Orks.
    The Dark Eldar.
    The Tyranids.

    These are the 'bad guys' of the 41st millennium. They're also all bottom-tier codexes. The one codex that's both a villain and not bottom-tier is Necrons, who've been inching away from their villain status.

    This is a bad thing.

    One of the best-known theories of storytelling is that a hero is measured by the villains he faces. Superman would be far less impressive if he only fought common criminals. Green Lantern would be far less heroic if he focused on jaywalkers. Likewise, Space Marines don't look badass and heroic for beating up Chaos Marines any more. They look like bullies. Eldar don't look heroic for holding the line against tyranids any more, they look boring as their massed rapid fire hit and run rending and strength-D flamers leave wave after wave of dead bugs.

    To be frank, this meta needs a better class of villain. Let's give it to them.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Many speculate that this is often done deliberately by GW as they believe the "good guys" sell better.

    Other potentials are due to the fact that except for Dark Eldar many of these codexes were quite popular in the early 2000's thus GWs poor release for these books can be perceived as a lack of effort given that the market is saturated with armies from these codexes.

    What I personally feel is more likely is that these codexes still suffer from the "less is more" days where each codex GW refuses to give them more treatment than other books, meaning that they are starting already on a lower peg and are only increased by the same interval as those higher, meaning that they will forever remain the same distance below the other codexes in terms of options and power.

    Whether you believe these theories or not the fact remains that without market research or an understanding or interaction with the community these imbalances and design alterations will continue
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  3. #3

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    *softly whispers* the craftworld eldar aren't heroes
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  4. #4
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cap'nSmurfs View Post
    *softly whispers* the craftworld eldar aren't heroes
    Let's be honest, there are no heroes in the 41st millennium. The point remains that weak enemies don't make things interesting, or fun.

  5. #5

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    50% of pre game conversations between me and my freind whilst getting out my Chaos Space Marines: 'Are you using Eldar?' 'Yes' 'You win'. Then I pretend to pack up until he changes his mind, as its no fun being gunned down with out a fight... Welcome to 40k!

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathmage View Post
    50% of pre game conversations between me and my freind whilst getting out my Chaos Space Marines: 'Are you using Eldar?' 'Yes' 'You win'. Then I pretend to pack up until he changes his mind, as its no fun being gunned down with out a fight... Welcome to 40k!
    This is something I luckily do not have to do. That being said, I'm not in any way giving anything less than the absolute worst cheese I can field against the stupidly op codices I face. What I've noticed is that every time I present an idea that can actually give a challenge to one of my opponents it's always OP. Compared to what I face these things are in par at most. I find this hilarious.

  7. #7

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    Dosent Necrons count as villains? I mean they are an ancient evil who kills everyone they come across (And some of them even turn people into statues and art work for his museum..=P)

  8. #8

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    I wouldn't have said any faction in 40K was the 'bad guy'. They're all horrible. Assigning 'villain' status to any of the codicies you've listed is insane, and seems based more on Tolkein/ AD&D than 40K.

    [url=http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/06/40k-editorial-faintly-aggressive-society-claims-its-supremely-moral.html]As I've argued before[/url], the Imperium is absolutely evil, through and through. Individual armies may be more or less moral than others, but overall? Humanity is completely and abjectly monstrous, it just dresses itself up as the good guys.

    As for the Eldar, [url=http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/40k-deep-thought-are-eldar-actually.html]I've discussed them too[/url], albeit at less length, and I have to say I think they're kinda worse because they're so bloody arrogant about it. There's not a single good (as in 'moral, decent, compassionate') bone in an Eldar's body, just a ruthless racial supremacist manifesto that says 'Well, we're not as bad as Slaanesh, so we're okay!'.

    The Dark Eldar are definitely evil, because that's their [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats]Hat[/url], but they're also woefully outnumbered, so not a credible villain. They'd be an excellent 'mind-behind-the-masterplan' faction, only that's Tzeentch's Hat, so they can't have it, which is a shame. Their codex definitely needs improving, though.

    The Orks aren't evil, because they're a culture that's just completely removed from any remotely human conception of morality. You'd never be able to convict an Ork of murder, for example, because it's a concept that carries no meaning for them. Are they a threat? Oh, absolutely. But evil? Not really.

    And the same with the Tyranids... Although it would be cool if it turned out the Hive Mind was actually evil, rather than just hungry. As it is, Tyranids are just a shark, eating because that's what it does.

    And in terms of 'the hero is only as good as the villain'... Well, that's true on a personal narrative level. Would I like to see these codexes made stronger? Yes, absolutely.

    But thinking about 40K in terms of 'goodies' and 'baddies' does a massive disservice to a setting whose primary appeal is moral complexity. There are no 'heroic' factions in 40K, just like real-life. Anyone who claims otherwise is looking through the lens of personal favoritism.

    And seriously, f**k the Craftworld Eldar. They are easily the most evil pr!cks in the 40K setting; at least the 'Dark' variety have the decency to be honest about it. An Eldar would trick you into killing your own children and make you think you'd done it for your own good... All to save his family's ancestral rose garden, because a Eldar flower is worth more than you, your family, or your world combined.

    Hateful, arrogant, pointy-eared motherf**kers. 'Good guys', my a**
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  9. #9

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    I'd agree Orks aren't evil or otherwise villainous. Warfare, scrapping, fighting and tearing around in dakka laden vehicles is, quite literally, in their DNA.

    In order to be evil/villainous, there has to be a moral decision involved. The choice to do something society holds to be wrong. Orks just lack that entirely.

    If anything, Craftworld Eldar are the true evil. Dark Eldar? Not even close. They'll raid a settlement, sure. Perhaps depopulate a Hive. But that to them is no different to is nipping to the shops and stocking up the ladder. Slaves and suffering are what they survive on. The unwilling sacrifice of the relatively few sustains the life of untold billions of Dark Eldar.

    But Craftworld Eldar? They'll think nothing, absolutely nothing, of slaughtering an entire planet full of 'lesser species' to save a handful of Eldar lives. That, is evil. It's the polar opposite of many a moral quandary, such as the classic mid-west legend of the mother who smothered her crying child, to prevent the marauding natives finding the rest of the townsfolk. There, one life, and one about as innocent as they come, was measured against the lives of the many. It's a heartbreaking thing to do, but given the circumstances, the right thing to do.

    Craftworld Eldar are a really horrific people!
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  10. #10

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    Absolutely.

    I think the whole idea that Eldar are 'good' basically derives from people who can't tell the difference between 40K and standard Fantasy tropes about Elves, where Elves are always portrayed as unequivocally good. That and the fact that Eldar basically look like good guys, despite their obviously monstrous acts.

    You judge someone by their actions, not by their appearance or words, and Eldar actions are unequivocally selfish and self-serving. Yes, there's the whole moral grey area where 'necessity defines that which is right'... But that's just equivocation. Survival of their species or not, the Eldar are just bad news.
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