When does the game end?

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed.

Remember, just like a Fire Axe, this bit of rules lawyering is in case of emergency, and for a specific purpose. Do not swing it around willy-nilly.

[ColeVVatkins]

True... I will probably just summon greater demons... If someone wants to play age of summonar(sigmon)(Sigmar + summon = ?

[Cutter]

When does the game end?

Well, it might be when you've tabled you opponent, or been tabled.

It might be when you've run out of time or energy and have calculated casualty percentages (top tip, don't be a summoner).

It might be when you or your opponent concedes defeat, not wishing to play out another pointless few rounds when the writing is on the warscroll.

Or, and this only happens occasionally, it might be when you leap across the table and stove your opponents head in for being a supercilious f**k, ideally with a conveniently hidden copy of 8th edition.

So, in the words of the great Phil Esterhaus,

"Hey, let's be careful out there."

[Erik Setzer]

They can if they're in range of a Garden of Morr - but even then it's only Zombies.

And even then, only if you insist on being a WAAC bellend and placing your victory of higher importance than an enjoyable game.

Personally, I feel that's the attitude people are taking when they claim Necromancers have no summoning spells just because the spells are listed on different warscrolls for practical purposes.

[Mr Mystery]

Indeed.

I think it's clear exactly how both elements are intended to work, but with one being a natural counter to the other (and a lot less ropey!) the simple lesson is - be careful when you rules lawyer!

[odinsgrandson]

Not nonsense.

Truth.

You can never summon unless the summoning spell is on your Warscroll.

So... My Lord of Change host is unaffected by all of this crap, and can summon Lords of Change until doomsday/I run out of minis. But other summoning spammers have issues.

That's fine. The LoC horde was the stupidly broken one anyway, and this averts the issue of running up against some other faction that wants to try the same thing.

[Mr Mystery]

I'd need to have a look at the LoC Warscroll to confirm

[odinsgrandson]

Personally, I feel that's the attitude people are taking when they claim Necromancers have no summoning spells just because the spells are listed on different warscrolls for practical purposes.

Well, yeah.

You'd figure that they didn't intend to use such disparate wording that spellcasters end up "knowing" tons of spells that can never be cast or used. I mean, who would devote that kind of space to stuff that isn't supposed to ever work, right?

...But that same argument can be used to back up the Fateweaver/Screaming Bell victory (because otherwise the Screaming Bell has a rule on its card that is never intended to actually be used).

[nsc]

I'd need to have a look at the LoC Warscroll to confirm

You're a fool, your insistence that no wizard can summon anything is the worst nonsense I've ever heard.

From the Chaos Sorceror Lord warscroll:

Magic
A Chaos Sorcerer Lord is a wizard. He can attempt to cast one spell in each of your hero phases, and attempt to unbind one spell in each enemy hero phase. He knows the Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield and Daemonic Power Spells.

SO, from your argument, he knows these spells but he cannot cast them

Which as we know is wrong, wizards cast spells that they know and thus RAW, any wizard with the chaos keyword can summon daemons, unless you mean to argue that RAW wizards cannot cast spells.

[odinsgrandson]

Please understand, nsc- we're all aware that this is nonesense. Clearly, GW's rules people included summoning thinking that it should be used... at all. This is just an exercise in rules lawyering with a poorly worded system.

Please understand, there's plenty of sarcasm to go around here. We all know that summoning is meant to play a part in this game sometimes. They just weren't too careful about the way they worded the rules.


...that said, your argument doesn't quite stand up to the stupidly strict rules as written that Mr. Mystery is bringing forward.

His insistence is that wizards may only cast spells from their warscroll (plus the two from the core book) and that "knowing" a spell isn't the same thing as being allowed to cast it (the rules don't state otherwise). That doesn't mean that they can't know the spells on their warscroll, it simply that they may not cast any that are not on their own warscroll.

By this reading, the Chaos Sorcerer Lord does get to both 'know' and 'cast' the spells on his warscroll (plus the two generics) but he still does not get any spells from other scrolls.

*As a side note, the Lord of Change's "Spell Thief" ability not only allows them to 'know' the spell that they've unbound, but also allows them to "cast" it. Clearly, the LoC host is the way to go with this rules-lawyering.

In conclusion, even this clearly wrong take on the rules as written still fails to stop the most broken summoning force from having an infinite number of Change Lords swooping about.