BoLS Lounge : Wargames, Warhammer & Miniatures Forum
Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 155
  1. #21
    Librarian
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Cannibal Sector 1
    Posts
    501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daboarder View Post
    yup, I just meant you cant for example say, I want a Hacking device and Multi rifle on my fatherknight, no to get hte HD you sacrifice the MR for a regular combi rifle.

    Another point worth noting is that 230 or so page tome York was tearing up about......that and a few paged of PDFs (all available online as both downloads and an easy to search wiki) That is all the rules, for EVERY SINGLE FACTION AND UNIT IN THE GAME.

    How many books is 40k at now? 24? give or take? PLUS the BRB? each one with its own special snowflake iteration of the same rule because GW cant get its **** together?

    Sure york, INFINITY is the game with the convoluted rules, whatever you say man
    +1

    Oh, and probably worth mentioning that it's free,

    http://infinitythegame.com/archive.php
    "Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a **** about the rules? Mark it zero!"

  2. #22
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Her Majesty's United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,344

    Default

    Hmmmm lots of Infinty apologists springing out of the woodwork.

    Hehe sorry couldn't resist.

    The article clearly wasn't an attempt to knife Infinty. It was a discussion piece on why some like a simpler/concise set of rules. Infinty is famously complicated that's why I believe it was mentioned. If you like your games more complicated say why, what does it add for you, what nuances can it bring? It's not the front page let's have some proper discussion rather than the ususl flag waving for whatever system people are playing at the moment.

    GW is no stranger to complexity, remember inquisitor anyone, iit had for me one of the most realistic feeling h2h mechanics that I've ever encountered, but boy did it go on a bit when playing.

    I've said it on the front page (in another identity) that I'd like to see 40K go more like Space Marine with the rules (not just the formations) as that provided a much better mass combat game, with a good flow rather than getting bogged down in very long IgoUgo turns. Less convoluted rules as you scale the size upwards helps quite a lot in my experience.
    Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit
    Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

  3. #23
    Veteran-Sergeant
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Bunbury, western australia
    Posts
    216

    Default

    Interesting point:

    About 2 years ago we had a huge Infinity following at our local gaming store. Bigger than Warhammer 40,000.
    After about 6 months Infinity was dead. We have a wall of the stuff with a permanent discount just to try and shift the stock.

    Warhammer? Still going strong. Not sure what it is about warhammer, but the game has staying power.

  4. #24
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Isle of Man
    Posts
    12,046

    Default

    you don't know complicated until you try to play Escape From Colditz
    Twelve monkeys, eleven hats. One monkey is sad.

  5. #25
    Librarian
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Cannibal Sector 1
    Posts
    501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirsten View Post
    you don't know complicated until you try to play Escape From Colditz
    My brother had that when I was a very small boy.

    Fantastic cover, never got played :-)

    Alas, it went away.
    "Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a **** about the rules? Mark it zero!"

  6. #26
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Isle of Man
    Posts
    12,046

    Default

    I was given it when I was probably about ten. tried it a few years later with my mum, we didn't understand any of it. my brother plays a big cold war game as well where you can try and destabilise various countries and it takes hours.
    Twelve monkeys, eleven hats. One monkey is sad.

  7. #27
    Brother-Captain
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Her Majesty's United Kingdom
    Posts
    1,344

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cutter View Post
    [removed]
    I was actually taking off Daboarder when he's giving us GW shills a bit of stick

    Yes Yorknecromancer can be a little verbose but what can I say I like my rules uncomplicated and discussions complex.

    I'm not sure Star Fleet Battles being more complicated than Infinity stops it being complicated itself. Am I right to infer that you do think there is a point where a rule set can be too complicated?
    Last edited by The Girl; 08-03-2015 at 10:28 AM.
    Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit
    Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

  8. #28
    Librarian
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Cannibal Sector 1
    Posts
    501

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grimmas View Post
    I'm not sure Star Fleet Battles being more complicated than Infinity stops it being complicated itself. Am I right to infer that you do think there is a point where a rule set can be too complicated?
    You know I'm honestly not sure. The games of SFB I played in my youth would be more complicated than I would be bothered with now, but when I was invested in it it didn't phase me in the slightest. If you're into it, you can cope with a lot, if you're not into it, eyes glaze.

    In SFB, understanding the intricacies and interaction of the rules was a tremendous force multiplier. Knowing how to get the best out of your ships would make a huge difference and at the time we took a huge pleasure in figuring out how to leverage maximum advantage out of the rules.

    To use terminology Mister Mr. E enjoys, I was an enormous dripping tramp's bell end, but I was playing in a community of dripping tramps, and we all had fun. And with that background the idea that someone could find infinity complex is, well, quaint and charming. But my frame of reference is wholly different from Yorkies.

    I think some of us enjoy the puzzle solving aspect of working out how a given system works and in turn how to work the system.
    "Has the whole world gone crazy? Am I the only one around here who gives a **** about the rules? Mark it zero!"

  9. #29
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Isle of Man
    Posts
    12,046

    Default

    personally I don't want the game mechanics to be a puzzle, the game mechanics are there to give life to the battle, which is what we are there to play and enjoy.

    it is tricky to make something intuitive. I have been writing my own game for a while, just as something fun for myself, and keeping it fairly straightforward but deep is tricky. I started creating before reading Infinity and I found a lot of similarities, which is reassuring. I definitely encourage people to have a crack at making something, it is an interesting experience.
    Twelve monkeys, eleven hats. One monkey is sad.

  10. #30
    Chapter-Master
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Undertaking private security operations somewhere in the Human Sphere
    Posts
    5,888

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grimmas View Post
    Hmmmm lots of Infinty apologists springing out of the woodwork.

    Hehe sorry couldn't resist.

    The article clearly wasn't an attempt to knife Infinty. It was a discussion piece on why some like a simpler/concise set of rules. Infinty is famously complicated that's why I believe it was mentioned. If you like your games more complicated say why, what does it add for you, what nuances can it bring? It's not the front page let's have some proper discussion rather than the ususl flag waving for whatever system people are playing at the moment.

    GW is no stranger to complexity, remember inquisitor anyone, iit had for me one of the most realistic feeling h2h mechanics that I've ever encountered, but boy did it go on a bit when playing.

    I've said it on the front page (in another identity) that I'd like to see 40K go more like Space Marine with the rules (not just the formations) as that provided a much better mass combat game, with a good flow rather than getting bogged down in very long IgoUgo turns. Less convoluted rules as you scale the size upwards helps quite a lot in my experience.
    Joking aside

    I noticed the apparent point of the article, my reply was more a response to the following posts and the tone of the article over its content.

    I wasnt addressing complexity versus simplicity, they are both fallible game design, ELEGANCE comes from finding the correct balance of the two and that should be rather apparent to any wargamer.

    I was addressing the idea that the Infinity rules were apparently convoluted and therefore off putting, which, relative to GW is blatantly ridiculous, thats not to say that GW is a mess, I have no problem with the games current myriad options (other than the balance between them), but its silly to call it anything but what it is especially in a game whose rules will soon exist in a maximum of two books.
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
    I probably come across as a bit of an ***, don't worry I just cannot abide stupid.

 

 
Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •