Grav Cannon, Oh Myyyy!

[Fueldrop]

Having a weapon go through 1 defense reliably is fine. Having something that goes through two defenses (eg toughness and armour) should be either low rate of fire (eg lascannon) or some other similar restrictions.

I play Eldar (I switched to DE for a while when the CE codex was the most powerful thing out there, because I'd rather play on hard mode than on easy mode. ATM I pick my codex based on what my opponent brings) and I dislike having mobile ranged D in the army. Particularly D flamers. Why?

Well, because they ignore toughness, armour, and in the case of the flamers cover. There's also a shot at flat ignoring all saves and the ability to cut through wounds and hull points like they're nothing. For the most part strength D does not belong in small games, at least in my opinion, and bringing it is a cheap move. I'll make an exception for D cannons, since they have both fairly short range and are fairly immobile. They're powerful, but an opponent can reasonably avoid them and play around them.

I don't play Wraith. I don't own a wraithknight, and never will because 1) it's broken cheap and unfair to use and 2) it looks stupid.

Do I have a point with this? Yes I do.
Just because you CAN have a cheesy list, doesn't mean you should. Outside of competitive play, you're responsible for making sure your opponent has fun as well so leave the spam lists at home. Take a unit of Centurions with grav, sure. One, maybe two if your opponent likes a tough fight. Don't bring an "I win button" unit, it's not fun for your buddy and it makes your victory hollow.

[Demonus]

I think what makes the Gravs so pants to play against is the reroll to wound, and reroll to hit if you use the one doctrine.

Also I saw someone post 11 hp lost above with a volley of shots. Am I wrong, or do you not apply all results from a weapon type at the same time? So the vehicle wouldn't technically be immobilized yet right?

[Charistoph]

Also I saw someone post 11 hp lost above with a volley of shots. Am I wrong, or do you not apply all results from a weapon type at the same time? So the vehicle wouldn't technically be immobilized yet right?

All shots from the same weapon from the same unit are fired at the same time. If the target is a Vehicle, all successful To-Hit Rolls immediately roll for Armour Penetration, and all Penetrating Hits get a roll on the Damage Results section. Nothing up to this point separates out the Hits as being separate events. It is only when dealing with Squadrons that each Hit is separated out before Armour Penetration is Rolled.

So, from that perspective, there is no "already" for an Immobilized Result in the same Attack.

[Charon]

You roll the damage results after each other as it could explode for example before beeing stripped of all hull points.
Different weapon destroyed results also do not effect the same weapon over and over again. The vehicle is immobilized as soon as you roll the "immobilized" result.

[Charistoph]

You roll the damage results after each other as it could explode for example before beeing stripped of all hull points.
Different weapon destroyed results also do not effect the same weapon over and over again. The vehicle is immobilized as soon as you roll the "immobilized" result.

And the line that defines this.... where, again?

Outside of Squadrons, nothing tells you to separate the Vehicle Damage Results one after the other, and can indeed be Fast Rolled. Yes, the Explosion may happen in the same group, but then the Explodes! result also states what happens if you roll multiple. How can you roll multiple if you stop at the first? Immobilized only cares if it is "already Immobilized", or in other words, before the Damage Results were rolled.

[Charon]

In the vehicle damage rules?

Penetrating Hits
If a penetrating hit was scored, the vehicle not only loses 1 Hull Point, but also suffers additional damage.
After deducting any Hull Points, roll a D6 for each shot that penetrated the vehicle’s armour and look up the result using the Vehicle Damage table, applying any appropriate modifiers, such as those granted for high AP weapons. All modifiers on the Vehicle Damage table are cumulative. If you inflict a penetrating hit, you must roll on the Vehicle Damage table even if the vehicle loses sufficient Hull Points to be Wrecked, as there is still a chance that it might Explode!

You roll up 2 penetrations and remove 2 hull points as in "After deducting any Hull Points"
Then you take 2 dice and roll on the damage chart as in "roll a D6 for each shot that penetrated the vehicle’s armour and look up the result using the Vehicle Damage table"
After modifiers you look up the results. If roll up immobilised 2 times the vehicle loses an additional hullpoint as one of the results already immobilised it.

You can roll up multiple explosions as you go and inflict the hullpoints first and the damage after them for each hullpoint inflicted. Even if you penetrate a Venom 5 times you roll up 5 times on the damage table as it could still explode and you easily can have multiple explosions in this 5 rolls. rules just tell you to apply just one of them. No such exceptions exist for dealing immobilized results.
There is no way somebody is going to argue that you socored 2 immobilized results but I apply only one and ignore the second because they were on the same unit. Or are you gonna argue that a 2 weapon destroyed results also destroy the same weapon 2 times instead of 2 different weapons?

Also Graviton:

When resolving a hit against a vehicle, roll a D6 for each hit instead of rolling for armour penetration as normal. On a 1-5 nothing happens, but on a 6, the target suffers an Immobilised result and loses a Hull Point. These weapons have no effect on buildings.

does not follow the normal damage rules.

[Charistoph]

You roll up 2 penetrations and remove 2 hull points as in "After deducting any Hull Points"
Then you take 2 dice and roll on the damage chart as in "roll a D6 for each shot that penetrated the vehicle’s armour and look up the result using the Vehicle Damage table"
After modifiers you look up the results. If roll up immobilised 2 times the vehicle loses an additional hullpoint as one of the results already immobilised it.

That is never stated as such. Up to this point, this is all considered the same event by the game. If it is the same event, than there is nothing "already" in place for one of the Results. Just because you choose to roll the results one at a time, doesn't mean the GAME considers them rolled one at a time. You can roll all the Damage Results together with nothing in the game to stop you, which means that the Results are still occurring at the same time, which means both "Immobilized" Results happen at the same time, so one cannot happen before the other.

Remember, you "roll a D6 for each Penetrating Hit" not, "roll a D6 one at a time for each Penetrating Hit".

When you roll To-Hit, you can roll them one at a time, or all together. The game considers all the Shots from that weapon in the unit to be fired at the same time. When you are successful, you immediately perform an Armour Penetration Roll and determine Hits. This is where Gravitation stops. But this still would apply if you were firing Multimeltas or Lascannons and went on to the Damage Results, since nothing there tells you to apply the Results one at a time or in any sequence.

You can roll up multiple explosions as you go and inflict the hullpoints first and the damage after them for each hullpoint inflicted. Even if you penetrate a Venom 5 times you roll up 5 times on the damage table as it could still explode and you easily can have multiple explosions in this 5 rolls. rules just tell you to apply just one of them. No such exceptions exist for dealing immobilized results.

Except its own condition is "already", as in "before the time in question, beforehand; by now". The sequence you physically roll the Results has zero bearing as to which happens first. You need to demonstrate where it says to do that in order to apply it.

There is no way somebody is going to argue that you socored 2 immobilized results but I apply only one and ignore the second because they were on the same unit. Or are you gonna argue that a 2 weapon destroyed results also destroy the same weapon 2 times instead of 2 different weapons?

I have argued this, many times.

Weapon Destroyed is a different pile of chips, though, and makes no conditions of an "already" to apply.

Also Graviton:
does not follow the normal damage rules.

No, it just applies the Result upon a modified Hit, so its application is even before you Roll Damage Results, which further demonstrations my point that it cannot be done "already" if processed in the same moment. (Squadrons excepted).

Note, however, a Grav Pistol, Grav Gun, and Grav Cannon are all 3 separate Weapons, and will all different timings and events of Shooting, so will not interact with each other in this manner and CAN Immobilize before the others.