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Thread: Your 40k

  1. #11
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    I think the #1 method for fixing 40K right now would be removing or altering Formations. Currently, and, sadly, intentionally, they're broken as all get-out.The easiest way to do this would be to remove any special rules and bonuses from them - they're just an alternate way of choosing your army list. No freebies, no nothin'.

    I actually think the distribution of Battle Brothers is just fine - it's the rules themselves that cause problems. Limiting all special rules to affecting only models of the same Codex might help.

    I'd also change the way wound allocation mechanics work. Aside from the multi-wound shenanigans (easily fixed), 5th Ed had my favorite way of distributing wounds. The current mechanic is just clunky nonsense that allows Invul+FNP+EW characters to tank a ridiculous amount of damage.

    There's others, but those are some big issues and solutions that I see right now.
    Last edited by Lexington; 09-09-2015 at 12:04 AM.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Thomas View Post
    Disembarkation in response to Assaults on Transports.
    Not for all armies I'd say, and it should be a Disordered Charge. It's not something Tau or Guard should be doing, for example, and it'd get really annoying trying to deal with Superheavy Vehicles in CC if I could keep charging squads out of my Stormlord to

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Thomas View Post
    Overwatch with Sponsons.
    Sponsons wouldn't make much sense due to their design, but Pintle-Mount weapons really should, as that's what they're for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djbz View Post
    Ghost arks moving sideways a bit makes sense, but they can do it at full speed when their main engine (that they'd need for full speed) is at the rear. They don't look maneuverable enough to pull a 90 degree turn, power up the main engine to max and then pull another 90 degree turn, it just defies all sense for something that large and clunky to be able to pull off that kind of maneuver
    You're basing that assumption on modern-day engine designs and understandings of physics. The Necrons mastered such things shortly after the dinosaurs got splatted. It doesn't even need to conform to relativistic physics.

    Not only that, but it's not necessarily strafing. It can turn 90, move, then turn 90 like any other vehicle. This point is just really petty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djbz View Post
    As for that last one, I didn't suggest making reanimation protocols feel no pain- I compared them as they are nearly identical and suggested that feel no pain get the limit of "never better than a 4+" that reanimation does
    I didn't say you did. Mr Gold did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Djbz View Post
    Kind of my point there, fearless (as it is) basically takes a dump on Tyranids "tactical flexibility" as they can no longer withdraw a unit from close combat with something they can't hurt(lets say a Dreadnought) to allow another unit (that has appropriate weapons) a clear shot.
    If your Gaunts are holding up a Dreadnought, they've achieved their purpose.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  3. #13

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    Do you have any ideas? All I see is you telling others why their rough ideas are failures because they are not perfect yet.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeGrunt View Post
    I remember that, due to the wording, the Riptide could choose between 3 S6 attacks, or 2 S10 attacks, because it halved the base Attacks value. Made it better than it should've been at CC. You get to re-roll Penetration at S10, which is damn nice tbh.
    I see no problem with that. The problem with riptide is the fact that it has the wrong unit type. It's not a monster in any way other than because the codex says so.

    Who is, "everyone," that has S10 Skyfire Ignores Cover, and how is that relevant against T6 MCs?
    Marines, Eldar, very likely AM when it comes out, surely orcs and so on. It's becoming a norm. Like I said in the initial post, it's relevant to DPs that are the only remaining melee moster there is.

    What's the point of making Codices BB with themselves and nothing else? It completely removes the relevant of BB-tier allies, and it makes sense that the Imperium works together pretty closely. It opens up a lot of options for styled armies.
    I did not make them all BB with themselves and nothing else. The rest have no reason to be BB with anyone.

    There are Formations that let you Assault from Deep Strike and such, so it's probably rolling out. Personally, I feel it makes units a bit point-and-click, but that's just me. Maybe if they got to do it as a Disordered Charge from Reserves/Transports?
    It makes assaults an actual tactic beyond some deathstars. It's not one now. Why would it be disordered when the unit is just as aware of the target than the other unit that starts it's turn on foot?

    What have house rules got to do with it? The Rules are designed around you not being able to discard cards normally, because certain Warlord Traits and Psychic Powers allow you to do so. Also, your opponent has to declare Jinking before you roll to Hit. Asking them if they're Jinking shouldn't need to be in the rules, it's a basic bit of politeness.
    The fact is that it is very easy to lose the game just because you get cards that can not be dealt with during the game. Why would there be a mission that does not have a target? Would you send a demo team to destroy a bunker that does not exist?

    Deny working like that would make Psychic Powers even harder to pull off. They're barely worth troubling with as they are now.
    You have the right to have an opinion. Then again, invisibility being a success 80%+ of the time is something that needs dealing with, imo.

    Players getting to choose who dies means chewing through expendable Grunts or seeing 10 Nob Bikers all take a Wound each. The system as it is now allows the firer to flank and use positioning to gain the advantage. If you tuck your HQ at the back of a squad and your opponent manages to surround you, it makes sense they take the hits. It represents them getting the drop on you, and you get Look Out, Sir anyway.
    Why is this a problem? This is what happens now, essentially, because of the LOS. It just makes sense that special weapons are not thrown away when the original user gets hit in the face. It is true that the present system allows more tactical thinking but sniping special weapons from squads is equally senseless. My suggestion just works better if ever so slightly.

  4. #14

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    I think the problem with psychic powers is that they are not really worth much if you have a lone psyker, but can become unstoppably powerful when you build your army around them (and use things like the Librarius conclave). Deny the Witch needs some way of scaling basically, or there needs to be a limit on what an individual pysker is capable of (which is probably the more 'realistic' option). If psykers were restricted in the number of warp charges they could each use, maybe that would be the solution- would make powers less likely to be successful, but wouldn't really affect armies with just one or two psykers, because they wouldn't have many warp charges in the first place.
    In the nightmare future of the 41st millennium, there is no time for peace. No respite. No Balance. There is only War.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by shiwan8 View Post
    I see no problem with that. The problem with riptide is the fact that it has the wrong unit type. It's not a monster in any way other than because the codex says so.
    Yet Tau Battlesuits have never been Walkers either, so that wouldn't have suited their MO.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiwan8 View Post
    Marines, Eldar, very likely AM when it comes out, surely orcs and so on. It's becoming a norm. Like I said in the initial post, it's relevant to DPs that are the only remaining melee moster there is.
    Marines get S10 Skyfire, Ignores Cover where? Also you can't just base it on the assumption that other Codices might get it some day, we're talking about the game as it is now. AM only have one AA platform, and it's the Hydra, which has Autocannons and actually lost the ability to Ignore Cover, rather than gaining it.

    It makes assaults an actual tactic beyond some deathstars. It's not one now. Why would it be disordered when the unit is just as aware of the target than the other unit that starts it's turn on foot?
    Teleport or summoning sickness, getting your bearings after a Grav Chute Insertion or entering into realspace to harvest souls, etc, etc. Like I said, some Space Marines or Daemons should be able to do it with specialists, but not forces like the Guard or Tau.

    You have the right to have an opinion. Then again, invisibility being a success 80%+ of the time is something that needs dealing with, imo.
    It should cost more Warp Charge and make attacks WS1/BS1, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by shiwan8 View Post
    Why is this a problem? This is what happens now, essentially, because of the LOS. It just makes sense that special weapons are not thrown away when the original user gets hit in the face. It is true that the present system allows more tactical thinking but sniping special weapons from squads is equally senseless. My suggestion just works better if ever so slightly.
    How is sniping senseless? Precision Shot is so rare outside of Tau or Skitarii that with proper positioning your special weapons should be fine.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  6. #16

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    Well, I do think Riptides would make more sense as Walkers. Yeah, Crisis suits are Jet Pack Infantry, but then Terminators are Infantry, and Dreadnoughts are Walkers. There is some point where GW considers a vehicle to no longer be a suit basically. The Riptide certainly isn't a Monstrous Creature in it's background, just a big mechanical suit, so I think it would make more sense as a Walker personally.

    I would also agree that Assaulting from a Vehicle or from Reserves would work best if it was a Disordered Charge. If nothing else just for balancing- Assault struggles without it at all, but it is very point-and-click without any restrictions. Disordered Charge wouldn't be a huge nerf anyway. It also makes sense for Assaulting from a vehicle, as everyone has to pile out of a small hatch and so on, and that loses momentum and time and makes the charge more difficult to pull off. Same goes for many Reserve methods, although just simply walking on the board I can understand that they are coming from a neighbouring battle space. However, if you are not able to shoot the units as they walk down the adjacent 'board' then it seems only fair that they get some penalty for assaulting from that adjacent 'board' IMO.

    I think wound allocation is fine. Maybe allowing wounds allocated to special/heavy weapon troopers would make sense sometimes (a Marine picking up a flamer from a dead comrade) it would be much more difficult for a lot of dropped weapons- all the weapons with integrated backpacks, like many Guard weapons and Heavy weapons for example, would take considerable time to swap to a new squad member. For the purposes of simplicity, I think it works fine as is. Also, Snipers really are meant to be able to pick out squad members- maybe no one else wants to pick up the special weapon because it makes you a sniper target? Maybe the sniper actually hit the weapon and detonated it in the hands of the user? There can be reasons why the dropped weapon is not reused.
    In the nightmare future of the 41st millennium, there is no time for peace. No respite. No Balance. There is only War.

  7. #17

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    Yeah, it varies per army as far as how they use special/heavy weapons. In the Guard, they're only issued to certain soldiers who are given some level of training, Eldar and Necrons don't tend to have squad special weapons, and only Pathfinders do for Tau as the battlesuits have them integrated. Tyranids get them, but they're integrated into their bodies.

    It's only really a problem Imperial/Chaos/Dark Eldar armies suffer from as a result. Perhaps you could give squad members with special weapons a 6+ Look Out Sir, but then it makes stuff like Sniper Rifles even more irrelevant in this game. Let's face it, a sniper has a 1/36 chance to pick out a Special Weapons member with an AP2 shot in the open, given that they need 6s to get a Precision Shot, and 6s to Wound at AP2. Otherwise it's bouncing off armour at AP6 for most armies. Snipers sadly rely on massed fire rather than being singularly powerful weapons.

    As far as Barrage Sniping, well if an Earthshaker Round hits an Astartes carrying a Lascannon, that Lascannon is almost definitely vapourised along with the Astartes and anyone else caught in the blast radius.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  8. #18

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    Yeah, exactly. Even within armies that do have extensive cross-training (like Marines) picking up a plasma cannon or a multi melta with it's integrated backpack and power cabling is going to take some time, which the Marines just might not have. I think it works out much simpler and more general to keeps wounds the way they are.

    Snipers really need to be better- give them Pinning back for a start, and maybe some kind of boost to hitting, because a Guardsmen with a sniper rifle is damn near useless, even at 2pts for the weapon. I really do not know why they removed Pinning from them. Maybe if Snipers came with Preferred Enemy (Everything? Everything but vehicles?) they would be useable?
    In the nightmare future of the 41st millennium, there is no time for peace. No respite. No Balance. There is only War.

  9. #19

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    Yeah, I feel Snipers should be all about that one shot, quality over quantity. 4+ to Wound is nice, but a bit mediocre if you're targeting mostly T4/3 targets. If your opponent is rocking Blobguard it's a bit wasted. Perhaps it counts as S4 Poisoned, so it re-rolls against T3 targets? A bonus to hit would be nice as well, or maybe a negative to Cover to represent it being that much more accurate. Y'know, just...something.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  10. #20

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    wow. i thought this thread would be full of 'its broken its broken' etc.

    not that were going to get any wishes granted - so this is another slant on what do you houserule !

    so quicklist:

    1; taken battlefocus off eldar fire dragons.
    2; taken 'ignores cover' off tau smart missiles
    3; made dark reapers and other units with ignore jink special rules slightly less effective by making successful jink on a '6' only
    4; allowed assaults from ALL vehicles if they havent moved [except assault vehicles which operate as per rules] - the vehicle can then only move 6" max and cannot go flat out
    5;prohibited ALL flyers from changing into skimmers ! - disembarkation is as for necron croissants - with assault permitted if it is an assault flyer -
    6;stopped the 'mad rush' at supposedly fast moving vehicles by altering the vehicle attack matrix and only allowing an attacking model to hit the ACTUAL facing of the vehicle it is in contact with ;
    7; increased front facing armour values from shooting by ONE on all light vehicles [A10] and on most A12 vehicles except skimmers
    [making dreadnoughts etc not automatic loota bait for example]
    8; stopped ALL vehicles from 'whizzing through' difficult terrain as if it wasnt there ! - maximum 6" move through cover in movement phase or flat out phase - really slows those fast skimmers down ! and all vehicles take the double snake eyes test if required - un-enhanced vehicles still 'crash' on a 1.

    our current thinking is on the over effectiveness of AP2 weapons [ you know the ones!] and the flaws with psychic powers - but tbh a previous poster made the valid point - unless the entire army is based around warp charge malarky - psychic powers arent all that great

    the sniper point also vexes us - kroot at 6 or 7pts whatever it is are just about as effective as snipers as 25pt eldar - we are thinking that it is range rather than the horrible conversion probability that 'might' make it more equitable

    and multiple barrage weapons ! [dem orcz dem orcz]

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