Using Flickerjump for overwatch shooting attack

[Defenestratus]

I guess my question is whether or not the Warp Spider ability "Flickerjump" can be used to avoid overwatch shots. Here's my scenario.

Squad of spiders is right next to squad of scorpions. Spiders declare charge against a squad of marines. Marines decide to overwatch. Warp Spiders flickerjump out of range of bolters thus losing zero models. Spiders roll for charge distance and fail because they're like a bizillion inches away at this point.

Scorpions charge marines and can't be overwatched because they already tried to shoot the Spiders.

Flickerjump rule verbatim:

When a unit with this special rule is chosen as the target of a shooting attack, it can immediately make a Wap jump (pg 154), moving 2d6" instead of 6+2d6", so long as it is not falling back. The firing unit cannot choose a different target, even if the target unit is now out of range or line of sight. A unit that makes a Warp jump in this way cannot make a Warp jump in its following Movement phase.

Would my scenario pan out? Overwatch is a shooting attack...

Also, am I correct in my interpretation that a squad of spiders can flickerjump multiple times in the same player turn (as many times as the unit is chosen as a target) since the wording doesn't specify a maximum number of times they can flickerjump per turn?

[Cactus]

My gut feeling is that Overwatch is not a shooting attack, it's a charge reaction.

I don't have a rulebook in front of me to confirm that though.

[Defenestratus]

My gut feeling is that Overwatch is not a shooting attack, it's a charge reaction.

I don't have a rulebook in front of me to confirm that though.

Pg45

"An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (abliet one resolved in the enemy's Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, light of sight, cover saves and so on."

[Valkerie]

Page 173 on template weapons states, among other things, 'Don't worry about comparing the length of the template with the distance to the enemy. If the charge is successful, it doesn't matter anyway. If the charge failed, we can assume that the enemy ran into range of the Template weapon and were driven back.'

Following that, on overwatch, all Template weapons can hit the target regardless of range.

Otherwise, it seems to be a situation where GW didn't think it through, (big surprise,) and will have to FAQ it (we can only hope). Given how underpowered Eldar currently are, (sarc), I'm assuming they'll FAQ it as you have laid out. After all, don't want the Eldar Codex to be too underpowered.

[Ben_S]

Spiders declare charge against a squad of marines. Marines decide to overwatch. Warp Spiders flickerjump out of range of bolters thus losing zero models. Spiders roll for charge distance and fail because they're like a bizillion inches away at this point.

I'm not really up to date with 40k any more, but do you have to be within 12" charge range in order to attempt the charge? If so, then moving 2d6" away won't get you out of 24" bolter range.

Or, if you are allowed to declare a charge from more than 12" away, presumably the marine player can simply not overwatch against you - the charge will fail and he can still overwatch the Scorpions.

[Defenestratus]

I'm not really up to date with 40k any more, but do you have to be within 12" charge range in order to attempt the charge? If so, then moving 2d6" away won't get you out of 24" bolter range.

Or, if you are allowed to declare a charge from more than 12" away, presumably the marine player can simply not overwatch against you - the charge will fail and he can still overwatch the Scorpions.

Thats another thing that flickerjump has brought about. When does the shooting player decide in his declaration of his target whether he's shooting rapid fire or normal fire? In either case, I don't think you can declare a charge if you're more than max charge range away - but even if it was possible, in this scenario the player getting charged wouldn't choose to waste his overwatch on the spiders in that case. Why would he need to? He'd save it for the scorpions.

Otherwise, it seems to be a situation where GW didn't think it through, (big surprise,) and will have to FAQ it (we can only hope). Given how underpowered Eldar currently are, (sarc), I'm assuming they'll FAQ it as you have laid out. After all, don't want the Eldar Codex to be too underpowered.

Snark aside, good point on the template weapons.

(FWIW, out of the 5 games I've played using the new Eldar Codex, I've lost 4. Probably because I'm using the warhost formation and not jetbikes or wraithknights)

[VarianceHammer]

I'm not really up to date with 40k any more, but do you have to be within 12" charge range in order to attempt the charge? If so, then moving 2d6" away won't get you out of 24" bolter range.

Or, if you are allowed to declare a charge from more than 12" away, presumably the marine player can simply not overwatch against you - the charge will fail and he can still overwatch the Scorpions.

Ironically, this would likely be most powerful against other Eldar, with their fairly short ranged weapons. You could really mess up a Dire Avenger player's day.

[Deacon Ix]

My interpretation of the rules (and they aren't logical) is.

You can flicker jump if overwatched, template weapons will still auto hit though (I presume they get you before the jump happens...).

If you manage to FJ out of range or LINE OF SIGHT (people seem to have forgotten that bit) then the OW can't shoot you.

You will probably fail the charge but there is a possibility you manage to FJ to some cover closer, but then be mindful about charging through difficult terrain.

[Valkerie]

To Defenestratus. Sorry if I came across as a jerk, I certainly didn't mean to. It's just that I had recently listened to a 20 minute rant from an Elder player about how badly GW had nerfed the dex. He couldn't use his three Wraithknights because they're Lords of war now, so they're totally worthless; the changes to how the Wave Serpent force field worked made them totally useless, and several other things that I can't remember because I more or less tuned him out about 5 minutes into the rant. And I'm afraid the headache that gave me may have affected my response.

More to the subject: I can't find it in the rulebook right now, but there is a comment on how overwatch can cause a charge to fail because the casualties put the rest of the squad out of charge range. It's something to the effect that it's assumed they made the charge but were driven back by the weight of the fire. Not a rule, to be sure, but it may give an indication of how they want the flickerjump scenario to go. Otherwise, talk it over with your opponent and come to an agreement.

On the multiple flickerjumps, why not? The only problem I can see would be that it might end up with your Spiders being too far away to do anything useful. However, the sight of Spiders bouncing all over the battlefield would be terribly amusing. And that, IMO, would be totally worth it.

[Defenestratus]

To Defenestratus. Sorry if I came across as a jerk, I certainly didn't mean to. It's just that I had recently listened to a 20 minute rant from an Elder player about how badly GW had nerfed the dex. He couldn't use his three Wraithknights because they're Lords of war now, so they're totally worthless; the changes to how the Wave Serpent force field worked made them totally useless, and several other things that I can't remember because I more or less tuned him out about 5 minutes into the rant. And I'm afraid the headache that gave me may have affected my response.

I understand. Perhaps your friend there had just started playing Eldar in 6th edition. I have 6 wraithknights and never used all of them in a single non-apoc game, but I don't lament them being LoW. They should be, and I think their power level is fine, just about 50 points too cheap. Wave serpents are still awesome - still wish we had a way to assault out of them tho!

More to the subject: I can't find it in the rulebook right now, but there is a comment on how overwatch can cause a charge to fail because the casualties put the rest of the squad out of charge range. It's something to the effect that it's assumed they made the charge but were driven back by the weight of the fire. Not a rule, to be sure, but it may give an indication of how they want the flickerjump scenario to go. Otherwise, talk it over with your opponent and come to an agreement.

The only thing I'd say about that is that it does say that overwatch follows all of the rules for shooting. This would include being in range- the only exception being the aforementioned template weapon.