White Dwarf 92 - Battletome Seraphon

[Erik Setzer]

well there is no reason to assume this is it. this book makes the current forces up to date. I am sure there will be new stuff added in future. I think it is a good thing that people's existing armies aren't being invalidated.

They were already up to date, and I'd bet this only adds some formations to the existing PDF. (Those PDFs were one right move they made with AoS.)

Just seems odd... If they have the Lizardmen/Seraphon in the fluff and artwork using the techno-magic they should definitely have access to (and be using more than ever), then there's a weird disconnect between story and models. Otherwise, they have to hold them back from their full potential in the story. Not really ideal.

I'd love to see more techno-magic stuff. If you're going to just chuck out anything that might be construed as generic fantasy, why keep Lizardmen as Lizard-men riding dinosaurs with an Aztec them using Aztec weapons? Most of that is cool, but break out the lasers, the blasters, the lightning guns, more wild creations designed by the Old Ones to take on their enemies. Sigmar's got a bloody space station wrapped around a planetary core, there's no reason the guys who used to have warp gates can't have some crazy gadgets and gizmos.

Not meaning to "bash" them here, just feels like a lost - or seriously mistimed - opportunity.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Yeah I agree totally with that. I hope the other reboots aren't as boring. I really think they should of released kits for other factions alongside the stormcasts and khorne models just to give everyone something, even if it was one box per faction - something to give them a taste of the new game. I

[Kirsten]

they were only up to date as a get you by pdf, like everything else. this is a new edition army book, with boxes updated to round bases. there will be new releases in future and I am sure there will be new toys for them.

[Mr Mystery]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

On one hand as Kirsten points out, it is important that existing collections are not invalidated.

On the other, new toys are always appreciated, and more fantastical stuff rarely miss the mark.

However.....Lizardseraphonmen were updated only a couple of years ago at most. And out of that, they got served quite nicely. Bastiloson, Carnosaur/Troglodon, Ripperdactyls/Terradon, Skin Priest, and I think, but don't quote me on it, Temple Guard - it's hard to check right now as most of their kits are down from the GW Site.

As for the technological terrors - well, I'm not reading about those in the background. Their main starring turn has been in Under the Black Thumb, and other than now being Daemons, they're still recognisably Lizardmen. Same weapons, same tactics, same bowel-loosening affect upon Skaven.

To add technological weapons to what remains a Fantasy game is bloody hard to pull off. Currently, Lizardmen pull it off fairly well. The Bastilodon clearly has a stripped down Laser Weapon, but it's design fits.

The Skinks and Saurus, despite now being Daemonic, are the same species rescued from The World That Was, so likely aren't mentally equipped for souped up new toys - after all, there must be a reason Saurus were bred to be close combat monsters by The Old Ones. It's likely beyond the concept or even ability of the Slaan to evolve them further.

[Erik Setzer]

GW pulled off the technology-in-a-fantasy-setting before. And there's also the fact that Sigmar built what's basically a space station around a planetary core. Plus the old line that any science advanced enough would be indistinguishable from magic.

The Lizardmen escaped the destruction of the world using starships, and they had a lot of technological stuff stashed around. So why not use it? And some of their "magic" is almost certainly just technology that people don't understand and utilizes the Warp (aka "magic"). Isn't there a Saurus character running around with what's basically a power fist?

I don't think the whole army should be running around with ray-guns and stuff, but something like special kit for characters would be good, and they could replace the horrendous "resin" models (great sculpts, it's the material that's awful) with new plastic clampacks at the same time.

For a "miniatures company" (yes, I know, that's not accurate, but let's roll with it), it seems odd to release a book to go with a repacking of stuff, with no new miniatures released. I guess the thinking is that the book will help sell some of the repackaged stuff that wouldn't have otherwise been notable? Actually, I should stop trying to contemplate their moves from a sane marketing standpoint, that's long been folly. :P

I suppose people can at least convert their own stuff. So there's that, at least.

[Mr Mystery]

Kroq-Gar has a Goa'uld hand device type thing.

One thing about the Slaan - they've sure got the toys, but it's not especially apparent they know how to use them. 1st Gen are gone after all.

[Erik Setzer]

It's been a few hundred years since the world blew up and the Lizardmen seem to have evolved (hence the Seraphon). You'd think they might have sent out a distress call, too, so someone at some point is likely to show up and take over the show again and remind them who they are.

Heck, I'm still rolling with my pet theory that the Slann are behind all these "realms" that seem to be chunks of the old world infused with specific "winds of magic" and inhabited by sort-of-copies of the races of the old world, only evolved well beyond where they should have been, and that's how some of them like the "Duardin" know how to make miniature warp portals ("realmgates").

[Mr Mystery]

Well that's interesting....

Gracing the front cover of this week's White Dwarf are the Seraphon, the children of the old ones. Their eternal spirits summoned by the memories of their Slann masters, they now do battle in the Mortal Realms, seeking the bring about the end of Chaos once and for all

So actual proper Daemons now - beings of magic. Explains why they've not evolved or updated their technology. They're memories of the Slann given form.

[Erik Setzer]

So actual proper Daemons now - beings of magic. Explains why they've not evolved or updated their technology. They're memories of the Slann given form.

That doesn't really make sense... If the Slann are so powerful they can give physical form to "memories"*, then why wouldn't they upgrade them as well? why not get involved with the heavier stuff? Especially as those guys they're bringing back the "memories" of failed to stop the calamity that befell the old world (BARELY stopping the Skaven's attempts, though losing a lot in the process... if Skaven weren't so prone to failure, it's likely they would have destroyed the world before Chaos proper could).


*And if the Slann are capable of bringing people back "from the dead" (except didn't they escape?), then I'm going to keep going with the theory of the Slann trying to remake the old world with less than perfect results in copying the world-that-was.

[Mr Mystery]

Well, you can't have a memory of a Lightsaber if you're not aware of them as a concept.