CSM Wishlist

[Path Walker]

I think the clue is probably in the name, Chaos Space Marines...

The important Chaos modifier conveniently missed in the hopes of an army being Space Marines just a bit better. That's not how things work. Fluff and cool models trump any desires of players wanting to win games more easily.

[Cutter]

The important Chaos modifier conveniently missed in the hopes of an army being Space Marines just a bit better. That's not how things work. Fluff and cool models trump any desires of players wanting to win games more easily.

Not missed, it's there in black and blue, I can see it.

No hope expressed as to whether the chaos elements makes them better or worse Space Marines.

Those apples are not this tamborine.

[Path Walker]

Just as long as they can at least do all the things Space Marines can just as well.

[Cutter]

If you insist.

Oh go on then.

Cos it's you.

Bless.

[WuhSawBe]

Updated plastic CSM. Seriously. The CSM in the vengeance set looked pretty slick, so something along those lines. As a World Eaters fan, updated zerkers' would nice!

[Mr Mystery]

Yup on both counts there.

[CrossbowSniper]

I'm hoping for something along these lines:

Chaos Space Marines: 60 points
Unit size: 5 space marines
Stats: (same as standard space marines)
May add up to 15 marines for: 13 points per model
One may be upgraded to a Veteran Sergeant for 10 points.
If the unit has a Veteran Sergeant, the unit may be upgraded to Veterans of the Long War for: 3 points per model
Equipment: boltgun, bolt pistol, close combat weapon, power armour, frag & krak grenades.
Special Rules: none

The Sergeant or Veteran Sergeant may exchange his bolt pistol and/or close combat weapon for:
Lightning Claw 15pts
Power Weapon 15pts
Plasma Pistol 15pts
Powerfist 25pts

For every 5 models, one may exchange its bolter for:
Flamer 5pts
Meltagun 10pts
Plasmagun 15pts

For every 10 models, one may exchange its bolter for:
Heavy Bolter 5pts
Multi-Melta 10 pts
Missile Launcher 15pts
Add Flakk Missiles 10pts
Plasma Cannon 15pts
Reaver Autocannon 15pts
Lascannon 20pts

Veterans of the Long War: models with this rule add 1 to their attack characteristics and leadership (max 10) and gain Hated (Space Marines).

This way the models can be cheap due to no special rules (newer renegade factions), more powerful than regular space marines with upgrades (legion or just older surviving CSM), and given the marks, just silly in most aspects if battle, shooting or close combat. It allows for hordes (20 marines, all with pistol/ccw and bolter for only 260 with no upgrades), specialists, lots of shooty special weapons, and more! Add in some transport capabilities and you have a basic troop that's similar to Space Marines (which is their origin) but different enough in feel that it doesn't feel like 'Space Marines with weird allies.'

[Cactus]

The important Chaos modifier conveniently missed in the hopes of an army being Space Marines just a bit better. That's not how things work. Fluff and cool models trump any desires of players wanting to win games more easily.

Actually, Cutter has it right.

I think Chaos Space Marines are Space Marines along the lines of Blood Angels being Space Marines, and Space Wolves being Space Marines. Chaos is another flavor of Space Marines. Good guy, bad guy motif aside, they are at their core, Space Marines. Spawn, Chosen and Possessed are closer to the old Rogue Trader description of the followers of the path of ruin, but at their core, the CSM are just Space Marines who actually have benefits of their faith.

Along with the things I mentioned, they should still have the boons of being favored by a Chaos God and have access to Greater Daemons, Daemon Princes, the half-daemon units like Chosen and Possesed, and a few more flavored mechanics (like Veterans of the Long War instead of TSHKNF.)

[CrossbowSniper]

another thought, if they wanted to make independent characters specialize in challenging, make them have a benefit in the challenge. And make the benefit befit that mark. Like, instead of a Mark costing 10-15 points for just a mark, make it instead like a 'Champion of (God)' with an added bonus.

Champion of Khorne: +15 points
Champion of Khorne has the Mark of Khorne. In addition, when this model is in a challenge, it gains an additional +1 attack for the duration of the challenge. (so, on the charge, in a challenge, with veterans of the long war [from my previous post] and 2 ccw, you're looking at 8 attacks[oh look, Khorne's number])

Champion of Slaanesh: +15 points
Champion of Slaanesh has the Mark of Slaanesh. In addition, when this model is in a challenge, it gains +1 to it's WS for the duration of the challenge. (because Slaanesh should have awesome duelists. A WS 7, I 6 independent character with armor ignoring weapon is scary for almost anyone [except whip wield tyrants])

Champion of Nurgle: +20 points
Champion of Nurgle has the Mark of Nurgle. In addition, when this model is in a challenge, it's weapons gain the Poison special rule for the duration of the challenge. (Because poison power weapons/lightning claws on a toughness 6 model is just fun)

Champion of Tzeentch: +15 points
Champion of Tzeentch has the Mark of Tzeentch. In addition, when this model is in a challenge, reduce the AP value of it's melee weapons by 1 for the duration of the challenge. (Make the Tzeentch boys scary in melee again. A sorcerer with an AP 2 Force Sword? Sure, why not)

And don't just put these on Chaos Lords, but Sorcerers and all the other IC HQ's (aside from the Daemon Prince, who gets his own stuff).

[Djbz]

Should also add all the effects of Cult Marines onto those ideas there Crossbow.
(Furious charge for Khorne/Feel no pain for Nurgle/Inferno bolts for Tzneetch)

Which reminds my why are noise marines completely lacking the extra special rule all the other cult marines get?