I hate that i may have been right

[Just Tony]

Walking a mile in another's shoes, maybe kill the condescending and flippant attitude towards anyone who didn't onramp to AOS? Just one possibility.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Adapting to change is not bad.
Doing the old thing you love is not bad.
People enjoying something that hurts no-one is not bad.
Wishing failure on something, something that does you no harm, that ain't cool.
AOS isn't everybody's cup of (insert national beverage here), but you don't hear me wishing failure on Privateer Press because i find their games less stimulating than lubing up with local anesthetic, or Mantic because I think I could make a more interesting range of miniatures with a blender, superglue, and some army men.
So bemoan it, by all means. Just expect people to disagree.
But don't wish failure on it, I wouldn't even wish that on the WOW movie.

[Mr Mystery]

Dude, this is an AoS board. For the discussion of AoS.

Not getting on with AoS isn't a problem. Preferring an older edition isn't a problem.

The problem is the constant 'tcoch, look at them, enjoying AoS for what it is. Don't they realise Xth Ed is better. I best keep telling them until I'm blue in the face'.

Imagine the same scenario elsewhere.

Cinema. You're watching a film, and yet the person behind constantly bangs on about how much they're not enjoying it, and you shouldn't be enjoying it either.

Food. About to tuck in to your favourite meal. And the person at the table over goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how your preferred meal is inferior or undercooked or primitive or what have you.

It gets old. Quick. On BoLS? For me, it got old when certain posters decided before they'd even seen the rules let alone played a game that the game was destined to fail, seemingly because they have nothing better to do.

It is neither condescending nor flippant to say 'it's happened. Move on. Get over it'. Not liking AoS is not going to make it become
9th Ed, nor lead to GW doing a 9th Ed. If you're not a fan of AoS, then you're not a fan. Nothing wrong with that. But ragging on it because it's not what you wanted it to be just doesn't achieve anything.

[Just Tony]

Dude, this is an AoS board. For the discussion of AoS.

Not getting on with AoS isn't a problem. Preferring an older edition isn't a problem.

The problem is the constant 'tcoch, look at them, enjoying AoS for what it is. Don't they realise Xth Ed is better. I best keep telling them until I'm blue in the face'.

Imagine the same scenario elsewhere.

Cinema. You're watching a film, and yet the person behind constantly bangs on about how much they're not enjoying it, and you shouldn't be enjoying it either.

Food. About to tuck in to your favourite meal. And the person at the table over goes on and on and on and on and on and on and on about how your preferred meal is inferior or undercooked or primitive or what have you.

It gets old. Quick. On BoLS? For me, it got old when certain posters decided before they'd even seen the rules let alone played a game that the game was destined to fail, seemingly because they have nothing better to do.

It is neither condescending nor flippant to say 'it's happened. Move on. Get over it'. Not liking AoS is not going to make it become
9th Ed, nor lead to GW doing a 9th Ed. If you're not a fan of AoS, then you're not a fan. Nothing wrong with that. But ragging on it because it's not what you wanted it to be just doesn't achieve anything.

I didn't pass judgment on AOS until I saw what it was, and then I decided it wasn't for me. I didn't wish ill will or failure on GW until this thread right here, in response to the attitude levied at people who aren't wholeheartedly on board with AOS. And as far as this being an AOS board: can you point me to the WFB board? If I scroll down a few pages, lo and behold this WAS the WFB board before the rechristening as the AOS board. I joined here to have discourse, push classichammer for those who are into such things, and maybe, just maybe, see someone's point of view on AOS that may change my opinion on it. So far the discourse is not to be had, except for the occasional divisive threads, there isn't enough traffic on the pages for any pushing of classichammer, and I've most assuredly not seen a single post that has given me pause to reconsider any stances I have on AOS.

My remark may have been born of frustration with that set up and in response to remarks made, and possibly with an excess of... zeal, but that doesn't change the feeling behind it, nor my indifference (at best) at losing the fantasy side of things overall from GW, especially if it keeps that sort of thing from happening to the other systems. System? Whatever.

On the bright side, SDS looks promising...

[Reldane]

It is neither condescending nor flippant to say 'it's happened. Move on. Get over it'.

take from google
Flippant: not showing a serious or respectful attitude.
Condescending: having or showing an attitude of patronizing superiority.

I think it would certainly be Condescending and Flippant to tell someone with a large investment in a game that has had support removed to make a new game to 'it's happened. Move on. Get over it'. it is clearly disrespecting that investment, remembering that investment is a lot more than monetary but includes the taken to assemble convert and paint the army.

If you like Age of Sigmar, I wish you all the best, it is in my interest to see Age of Sigmar succeed and I hope that the people who do enjoy it continue to play. I also advise anyone who hasn't given it ago do try it and see how you personally feel about it as it will only take an hour (or less) of your time. However there is nothing wrong with any game or rules set not being.

[Mr Mystery]

If they had inexplicably binned all their books - then fair enough.

If they had sold all their books prior, expecting to use the funds to buy whatever new ones came out - then fair enough.

But other than the above (I don't joke about house fires. They're terrifying) - then there is nothing preventing you from carrying on exactly as you were.

Ultimately I really don't care who does and doesn't enjoy AoS. It's utterly irrelevant to me. I enjoy it, and I continue to enjoy 8th Ed. I have all the books for both, because that's the sort of hobbyist I am. The investment is the same. Don't want the new offering? Stick with whatever works for you. The models are still out there to buy, and appropriately size square bases are plentiful and easy to come by - and the more esoterically sized ones can still be made out of Plasticard with little to no fuss.

So AoS is a non-issue. Nobody has done a Farenheit-451 on your collection of books.

[Reldane]

So AoS is a non-issue. Nobody has done a Farenheit-451 on your collection of books.

please don't miss understand me, I have no gripe or problem with Age of Sigmar (bar one to be explained later). My point was that your statement was false, as is this one. I am somewhat fortunate that I have the space to play at my home; not everyone has that space, I know a number of people who have to play at the local games workshop if they want to play at all. Now I have read that some GW's do allow you to play old games, but the one local to me (and I suspect others as well) do not. So for some people having the books makes no difference to how easily they can play. in addition it is very difficult to bring someone into an older version of the game, if a friend of a friend wants to join in they must scrounge ebay for those books hoping to find one that is in reasonable condition - a task that will get harder with time and can be quite off putting.

my only real complaint at Age of Sigmar, is using Sigmar's name. I read and enjoyed the Graham McNeil Sigmar books, they got across a character who had flaws but united an empire though his humanity, who was tempted onto darker paths by (the ring) Nagash's crown. A character who would rather lose and see humanity die out than sacrifice that humanity. The Sigmar fleshed out in those books has little to no resemblance to the Sigmar of Age of Sigmar - he feels a lot more like a recast of the Emperor of the Imperium.

[Just Tony]

Also I forgot to put on my list of reasons for my AOS flop stance is that GW, SDS news notwithstanding, has proceeded on a path born of hubris, and I'd personally love for them to find out firsthand how otiose market research and focus groups on the customer base really are.

[HappyDad]

- then there is nothing preventing you from carrying on exactly as you were.

I keep reading this, but it is not actually true.

For me, 'carrying on', would mean expecting a continual evolution of the rules, the introduction of new units and fluff, and very importantly the upgrading of old models with far nicer new ones. I was still really looking forward to new high elf warriors and archers and some decent goblin wolf riders (my favourite unit since I started collecting at 11 years old - 28 years ago now). Also, I would like to be able to introduce new players to the game, and have them be able to walk into the store and buy a copy. I also want balanced army lists. IMHO the current hardback books drifted well away from that. I would of hoped that at some point in the future they would of tightened them back up again.

I am now left with none of these hopes. New models seem to be upscaling to 35mm with a more cartooney look, so pretty unsuitable for use in WFB 8th. It looks increasingly unlikely that there will be any models that I will want to buy and make home brew rules for to play in 8th.

So in fairness, GW have totally stopped me 'carrying on as before', as there is now absolutely nothing to look forward to for my game (and the thousands of invested £), other than a slow gradual decline into the annals of history.

[Erik Setzer]

But unlike the vast majority of companies, GW has the capability to commit to a long term vision for it's products and I expect that they will maintain a continuous stream of new fluff and miniatures.

It's greatest obstacle in the short term is allowing all the Oldhammer diehards to just fade away and make room for new folks who can enjoy the AoS world without having folks constantly *****in and complaining.

I don't expect them to maintain anything if the sales don't end up being amazing and out of the ballpark. If they turn out to be underwhelming (even if it's a minor profit), I wouldn't be surprised to see GW cut the cord.

The greatest obstacle isn't the customers GW let down by destroying a game system because they didn't realize their business model was the real problem. The greatest obstacle is a combination of a continued poor business model and a game that doesn't really have any direction and is just telling the players to make up their own rules for playing with their toy soldiers (which is mainly a problem because that doesn't work so well for shared community experiences). You can see with the multiple comp systems and all that the AoS community itself is fragmented with people trying to figure out how they'd prefer to play the game, and it could create a mess for players going from one area to another having to figure out how that area likes to play the game. Without an official framework, it's just too much chaos. That kind of chaos sort of works with RPGs, but AoS isn't an RPG, it's a tabletop miniatures game. 40K came alive when they gave it more structure than the original Rogue Trader rules had.

Blaming other players because it's easier than having a frank discussion of a game with core flaws is just petty, and the AoS gamers doing that are, themselves, a huge turn-off and, as such, almost as much of an obstacle as GW not really committing to the game.

- - - Updated - - -

If they had inexplicably binned all their books - then fair enough.

If they had sold all their books prior, expecting to use the funds to buy whatever new ones came out - then fair enough.

But other than the above (I don't joke about house fires. They're terrifying) - then there is nothing preventing you from carrying on exactly as you were.

Ultimately I really don't care who does and doesn't enjoy AoS. It's utterly irrelevant to me. I enjoy it, and I continue to enjoy 8th Ed. I have all the books for both, because that's the sort of hobbyist I am. The investment is the same. Don't want the new offering? Stick with whatever works for you. The models are still out there to buy, and appropriately size square bases are plentiful and easy to come by - and the more esoterically sized ones can still be made out of Plasticard with little to no fuss.

So AoS is a non-issue. Nobody has done a Farenheit-451 on your collection of books.

Hmm. You know, the same argument could be made about Specialist Games. How many of those are being played at the local shop?

Oh, and if your local shop is a GW store, then you actually ARE banned from playing WFB there, just like Specialist Games, or anything else not currently on shelves.

So yeah, this whole argument is... well, there's no kind word for it.

And house fires are absolutely not something to joke about. That's one reason I don't have a complete collection right now. My dad and I had a pretty serious combined collection, most of it was in the middle room of my family's house when it caught fire and burned bad enough to have to be completely scrapped and rebuilt. Managed to save a good bit of figures at least, but not one of my favorite armies I'd worked on.

House fires are also a bit of a touchy subject for me recently... but that's a different, unrelated story.