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  1. #11
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    I don't think chaos gods ever wanted Horus to win, what they really wanted was the 10,000 years of mayhem that followed. The warp is a reflection of emotion in the physical universe. A united peaceful galaxy would have weakened them, but a superstitious one constantly at war strengthens them.

    So Horus lost as soon as he fell to chaos at Davin.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    Afternoon.

    Bit of a poser here for those familiar with the expanding background of the Horus Heresy.

    As per the title - just when did Horus lose?

    Now the obvious answer 'when the Emperor mind-bulleted him to death' isn't what I'm looking for.

    Instead, I'm wanting to explore the decisions made during the conflict as a whole - so really from the start of the Isstvan cleansing, right up to the final moments on his Battlebarge.

    Quick comparison? World War 2. The war wasn't won when Berlin was taken - instead, that was just the final event of a long chain of disasters. Some feel it was when they opened up the Eastern Front, and provoked Russia. Others argue it was The Battle of Britain, in which the German war machine was dealt it's first serious defeat.

    So that sort of thing. What was Horus' first blunder? Was it one of his allies who cost him the initiative required to strike before the rest of the Imperium could gird itself - or was it his own hubris?

    Right. Off you go
    I'd argue that it was when Hitler fired most of his Senior staff and, more or less, put Goering in charge of everything, but that's a different discussion

    Horus lost when he let Lorgar start turning his brothers, because, as more of them fall, it becomes harder to reign in the imperatives the Ruinous Powers place upon their followers, especially when they are at odds with Horus' plans. His little stint as The Shadow notwithstanding, he's still being led by the nose, and Erebus and Kor Phaeron are tugging on that ring, and I don't think anyone is going to realize that until H, E, and S are bleeding out on the deck of the Vengeful Spirit.

  3. #13

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    When Sanguinius didn't join him. Throughout the series the suggestion was Sanguinius was a genuine alternative contender for the position of warmaster, so was at least as good as Horus in theory, and then the loyalists had the big E as well...

    Whats a bigger question is why did the Emperor wait so long to intervene? The Empire of man is collapsing into civil war and the Emperor doesn't get out of bed till Horus is knocking on the door?

    However the process of robo-insemination is far too complex for the human mind!
    A knee high fence, my one weakness

  4. #14

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    That would appear to be due to Magnus breaking the Portal thing.

    Emperor and his Custodes were stuck on Terra trying to contain the rift.
    Fed up for Scalpers? https://www.facebook.com/groups/1710575492567307/?ref=bookmarks

  5. #15

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    I seem to have missed that, was it in one of the short side stories?

    However the process of robo-insemination is far too complex for the human mind!
    A knee high fence, my one weakness

  6. #16
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    I've just realised why the "spear tip" thing as a tactic for the XVI is played on so heavily in the first few books, its foreshadowing exactly what Horus would try and do later on!

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychosplodge View Post
    I seem to have missed that, was it in one of the short side stories?
    A Thousand Sons covers it, Magnus foresees Horus' fall and tries to save him, but is too late and witnesses his corruption. He then projects himself through the Warp to reach Terra, and finds the webway portal which he had suspected due to finding an entrance to the Webway during his travels. He tries to gain entry, but can't, and an entity, (Tzeentch,) tricks him into beating it up to steal its power and break through the Webway. Magnus gets into the Webway and psychically projects to the Emperor what he saw of Horus' fall, but the Emperor projects back the sheer magnitude of what he was building, and what Magnus just destroyed, into Magnus' mind, who then retreats back to Prospero.

    The Emperor and Custodes are then trapped in a battle to keep the Webway portal closed shut to prevent Daemons overtaking Terra through it. He was probably glued to the Golden Throne the whole time to keep it shut, much in the manner he is now.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  8. #18

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    The Emperor and Custodes are then trapped in a battle to keep the Webway portal closed shut to prevent Daemons overtaking Terra through it. He was probably glued to the Golden Throne the whole time to keep it shut, much in the manner he is now.
    yeah it's that bit I didn't notice. I'm going to have to go back and re-read bits of the heresy series.

    However the process of robo-insemination is far too complex for the human mind!
    A knee high fence, my one weakness

  9. #19

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    Aaron Dembski-Bowden is currently writing, The War In The Webway, which will presumably cover it. It also has The Emperor as a point-of-view character. Did I also mention that it's written by ADB? Seriously looking forward to that one.
    Read the above in a Tachikoma voice.

  10. #20

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    Just mention it again.

    However the process of robo-insemination is far too complex for the human mind!
    A knee high fence, my one weakness

 

 
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