Space Marines vs. Chaos Space Marines

[Oden_Criteria]

I have been ruminating on this choice for some time now. I want to start a small army of either normal or Chaos Space Marines, but I'm not sure which one I should get. Unfortunately, I am not rich, so my purchase cannot be too extravagant. Any opinions on which faction is better? Any ideas for good starter armies? Thanks for your feedback!

[YorkNecromancer]

Cheat.

Buy 'Betrayal at Calth' boxes; paint your models up as Dark Angels. Get a Cypher model or just convert one (it's a doddle).

Suddenly you have a Dark Angel 30K force and a perfectly valid and utterly awesome 40K Fallen Angel army.

Add a handful of 40K Chaos models over time to season the main force. You could use the 'Dark Vengeance' set for a superb selection of bits.

[Charon]

1) Get a "Betrayal at Calth" Box. For GW standards it contains good value.
2) Make up your own color scheme.
3) Use them as a Renegade Chapter.
3a) Look at the Codex Chaos Space Marines.
3b) Ask on the forums if this Codex is a bad joke.
3c) Wait for confirmation that CSM just suck.
4) Forget about the Renegades and call them "Sons of Shangri-La"
4a) Look at Codex: Space Marines, Codex: Space Wolves, Codex: Blood Angels, Kauyon and Mont'ka and giggle.
4b) Don't bother to choose a Parent Chapter for your "Sons of Shangi-La" and switch Capter Tactics and Formations as you see fit.
4c) Wonder why you ever thought about playing CSM.
5) Have fun games with your Space Marines Chapter.

[Talon of Anathrax]

I must sadly agree with the last few posters: unless you absolutely love the fluff of CSM, don't bother with them - they're really terrible in-game right now. Of course if you decide to play lists with Renegades and Heretics or Daemons they can be pretty good, and they have one or two semi-competitive lists, but if you want to play power armoured dudes don't try CSM.
If you're hesitating, look through the Marine chapters and pick one you love! Forge World has loads of good stuff for you (ever heard of Carcharodons or Red Scorpions? Some people love the Minotaurs, Raptors, Mantis warriors, Executioners, Red Hunters, Angels Revenant, Star Phantoms, Fire Hawks... There's loads of choice out there!), and as has been said before, some can even be played as both loyalists and CSM if you feel like it! Alpha Legion and Dark Angels are the best at this - some models will need some slight changes of course (scouts and Maulerfiends are the biggest offenders here), but it works very well.
Note that the Battle for Calth box is great value and has great models if you're looking to start either side (or their 30k equivalent). The standard Dark Vengeance box is also good for expanding (especially if you have some conversion skills to make the models mathc your chosen faction - unlike the Battle for Calth box, these ones have insigna and stuf!f), unless you already are decided on something like the recently updated White Scars and Raven Guard or one of the Forge World chapters I mentioned which have their own specific playstyle.
Tell us what you love about CSM and we can suggest Marine chapters for you, if you're still hesitating! Or what kind of playstyle and background you find great, and there'll be a chapter for you! Otherwise I suggest using 1d4chan or Lexicanum, they have some good information too.

Still stuck? Look at this! [url]http://thegoodthebadtheinsulting.blogspot.fr/2015/08/10-underrated-space-marine-chapters-who.html[/url]

[Kaptain Badrukk]

Whilst I agree that 'Betrayal at Calth' is the udeal starter box for any kind of Astartes, I'm not in agreement RE:CSM sucking. The book is a tad dated though, so they currently aren't top-tier tourny fodder if you care about that sort of thing.
Just do what you feel is thematically coolest.

[Charon]

I'm not in agreement RE:CSM sucking. The book is a tad dated though, so they currently aren't top-tier tourny fodder if you care about that sort of thing.

You do not need to play on a tourney level to figure out that a Space Marine without ATSKNF, Chapter tactics, combat doctrines, combat squads, a great variety of special and heavy weapons, Transport options that MUST issue and accept challenges is a lot worse than a Space Marines who gets all of this for just 1 point difference.
And as everything that contains a Space Marine at base (Assault Squads, Devastor Squads,...) also contains that difference you really really really don't have to play a tourney to figure out that 43 Iron Warriors on one side vs 40 Imperial Fists on the other side is quite heavily in favour of the Fists.

[Djbz]

Whilst I agree that 'Betrayal at Calth' is the udeal starter box for any kind of Astartes, I'm not in agreement RE:CSM sucking. The book is a tad dated though, so they currently aren't top-tier tourny fodder if you care about that sort of thing.
Just do what you feel is thematically coolest.

Well apart from almost every chaos space marine unit is outdone (for cheaper) by the imperial equivalent (biggest descrepency Techmarine compared to a Warsmith)
And their relics are just awful, most of their unique gear is far too expensive.

And this gap has only gotten bigger as they keep giving loyalist marines more stuff.

Of all the things chaos space marines have, the only thing they really have going for them over their loyalist brethren is daemonicly possesed vindicators resisting crew stunned/shaken. And dirge casters

[Sly]

CSM is competitive with a Forge World-heavy list (Heretics & Renegades, open-topped Flying Transports, some nice fire-support Tanks and Flyers). Without that, it's pretty weak. On base units, it's clearly worse than SM, perhaps even to the point where it's not competitive there. And it also lacks any "wow, this is good" units that can make some lists such as Centurions and Bikes with Hit & Run.

So you can play CSM with a small force of CSM supporting/leading some Heretics/Renegades, or you can do a Flyer-heavy list with several Drop Pods, Heldrakes, Hell Talons/Hell Blades, etc, and those are competitive. I don't know if there's anything else that is competitive.

[henrythesecond]

As others have said, either of the box sets, 'Betrayal at Calth' or 'Dark Vengeance' will provide a less expensive boost to a starter army.

To decide between either Chaos or Imperial Space Marines has to be made based upon your gaming/hobby preferences.

If your enjoyment of 40k, or gaming in general, is based upon standing a better chance of winning any given battle, then Imperial Space Marines are the clear choice. It's worth bearing in mind that this applies only in the current meta, and is subject to change when/if the new Chaos Space Marine codex is released. But it also may not change; what can I say, it's Games Workshop. And CSM.

However, if your hobby pleasure does not rely heavily on playing a competitive army, then simply read all the fluff and background you can get your hands on, trawl (not troll) the internet, codexes and old White Dwarfs for all the pictures you can until a Space Marine chapter (imperial or chaos) speaks to you and begs or dares you to create them. That'll be the one for you.

At least that's what I've done. A lot of times.

[Oden_Criteria]

Thank you all for your advice! I have searched through the Internet and various wikis, and the chapters that have caught my eye are Imperial Fists and Blood Angels for the Imperials, and Iron Warriors for Chaos. I will probably get Betrayal at Calth and paint them as Imperial Fists. However, I was wondering if I could/should use them as a 40k army as well as a 30k. Also, thank you for indulging me and my noob-ish questions.