Clan raukan questions

[Vangrail]

1. Is the book still useable?
2. Considering I play sons of medusa and use vaylund cal (fw iron hands tatics char) can I use this book?

[energongoodie]

I believe they released an updated digital version that brought it in line with the latest codex and made the book redundant. But I'm still using my hard cover book and the guys at my games club are fine with it

[Vangrail]

I think my local gw has one. Id buy if i can use it. I can use all my forge world units and stuff correct? Isnt it just bonus stuff for the marine book? So its everything i use now and more?

[energongoodie]

I'm afraid I don't have the digital version to check against, sorry.
Do remember though that we aren't as good as we were. Our tanks lost IWND. Dreadnoughts only now.
I hope this gets FAQ'd and we get it back I really miss this rule on my tank heavy list which I no longer run.

[Vangrail]

Honestly looking at it I beleive they still do. People argue well tanks don't get chapter tatics. It says all vehicles get iwnd and people still make their land raiders redeemers twin linked bc sallys. And land speeders with duel meta twinlinked. Everywhere I play people say tanks still get iwnd and are pretty sure it's just people being dumb...

[Charon]

The rules will often refer to a model, character or unit by its Chapter; in all cases, this refers to a model, character or unit with the Chapter Tactics special rule that is drawn from the given Chapter.

Only models with the chapter tactics trait do benefit from chapter tactics. The vehicle is from the Iron Hands chapter (is drawn from the given chapter) but does not have the chapter tactics special rule (character or unit with the Chapter Tactics special rule)

[Vangrail]

According to the updated ITC Faq. "Vehicles with the Space Marines Faction in an Iron Hands detachment benefit from the Machine Empathy special rule even if they do not have the Chapter Tactics special rule"

So yea I'm pretty sure people are just being stubborn. Bc it says all vehicles get the rule. So as far as I'm concerned it's how it always was.

[Charon]

You can houserule whatever your want. RAW they do not have it.

Bc it says all vehicles get the rule.

It does not. It says Iron Hands Vehicles get it. And according to the chapter tactics rules you have to fulfill two criteria to be considered an iron hands vehicle (ruleswise) 1) be chosen into an iron hands detachment and 2) have the Chapter tactics trait. The Dread fulfills both criteria, the other vehicles do not. Chapter tactics on the dread would be pointless if he benefits anyways from everything.
Same as Black Templar Vehicles do not get Adamant will (except for the dread) and Imperial Fists vehicles do not have bolter drill and siege master (except for the dread).

I don't see how Iron Hands are the only ones always trying to argue that point while it seems clear for everybody else.

If you go down that road you can also argue that the Legion of the Damned do benefit from chapter tactics altough the lack the Special rule. As they are bought in a [chapter] detachment they qualify in the same way vehicles do.

The melta thing is a different beast as this rule comes from Hestan and it says every model in his detachment, which is reguardless of chapter tactics or not (so even a fortification and the legion of the damned would count)

[Vangrail]

Its just a weird rule take away. Like its not broken and helped here and there, but u were thankful for when it heppened lol. Just kinda a weird nerf. I also feel like they worded it dumbly because it should read Characters and Dreadnoughts then because nothing else has chapter tactics. Then it goes back to sally players again why do they reroll to wound with flamer weapons on tanks? Same with Imperial Fist vehicles dont get to the siege master rule against buildings.

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Another issue I have for it is that tournaments are ruling all vehicles get the rule. So its just interesting situation. Players say yes and no, tournaments say yes. Whats games workshop say? Feel like they are the official opinion. But I guess you could argue the chapter tactics represent living models and that is why dreadnoughts get it. Well at least I know I can use the supplement book for some reason I though I cant. That makes more cool conversions for me!

[Charon]

I also feel like they worded it dumbly because it should read Characters and Dreadnoughts then because nothing else has chapter tactics.

You never know what Dataslates, Supplements, Campaign books or Forgeworld might bring.

Then it goes back to sally players again why do they reroll to wound with flamer weapons on tanks? Same with Imperial Fist vehicles dont get to the siege master rule against buildings.

Don't know why they do it because according to the rules they are not allowed to do so. Next time you encounter such a player tell them that your Legion of the Damned got FnP from Iron Hands Chapter tactics. They do not have the special rule but they are part of the Iron Hand Detachment and have to be "Iron Hand Legion of the Damned" according to the logic applied to vehicles which also do not have the special rule but are part of the Iron Hand detachment.
Also try to find out which bonus Dreads get for actually having Chapter Tactics if they don't need it to get access to all special rules anyways.