Disembarking wrecked vehicle effect on subsequent shooting phase

[lokiwhacker]

If a unit of tactical marines with a heavy/salvo weapon were forced to disembark during the opponent's shooting phase, would they be counted as moving for their subsequent shooting phase on their next turn?

On BRB pg81 under Disembarkation Restrictions

[Wolfshade]

No.

Only how they moved in their next movement phase (and then subsequent shooting phase)

[lokiwhacker]

Even though it says "can shoot in their subsequent shooting phase, counting as have moved that turn"?

Similar to the wording for regrouping "can shoot(including overwatch), but counts as having moved"

Does that mean that shooting phase refers to just shooting in that turn(overwatch)?

[Da Gargoyle]

And here in lies the danger of relying on memory. Reading your post, I would have said no you could not shoot heavy weapons. However, there is no mention of restriction to the firing of heavy weapons as a result of a forced disembarkation, funnily enough, only assaults. It would seem the standard rules apply to your next turn. So the only thing that is likely to cause you problems is if you fail the pinning test. A pinning test will carry its restrictions through to your turn the same as any other event that forces a pinning test that is subsequently failed. Having said that, how many units are there these days that are susceptible to pinning tests?

As far as "counts as having moved" is concerned, disembarkation as a result of a shooting attack does not happen in your turn and there is nothing there to say it carries across into your turn.

This is why I believe it was a mistake to remove the old tangled rule. Being stuck in the debris of a lump of burning vehicle kind of focuses your priorities. You don't shoot back, not because you are scared, but because you are busy putting out the flames on your sleeve or removing the cross beam that always pins some one to the deck. Anyone that has experienced an impact with car or in a car will tell you the first thing to deal with is the shock and checking to see if you have hurt yourself.

[Charistoph]

And here in lies the danger of relying on memory. Reading your post, I would have said no you could not shoot heavy weapons. However, there is no mention of restriction to the firing of heavy weapons as a result of a forced disembarkation, funnily enough, only assaults. It would seem the standard rules apply to your next turn. So the only thing that is likely to cause you problems is if you fail the pinning test. A pinning test will carry its restrictions through to your turn the same as any other event that forces a pinning test that is subsequently failed. Having said that, how many units are there these days that are susceptible to pinning tests?

As far as "counts as having moved" is concerned, disembarkation as a result of a shooting attack does not happen in your turn and there is nothing there to say it carries across into your turn.

The rule is:
"Disembarkation Restrictions
After disembarking, models can manifest their psychic powers and either shoot or Run in their subsequent Shooting phase, counting as having moved that turn, but they cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase. If a unit disembarks from a destroyed vehicle during the enemy turn, it cannot charge in the Assault phase of its own turn unless the destroyed vehicle had the Assault Vehicle special rule."

Disembarking affects THEIR (as in the models') subsequent Shooting Phase, not just THE subsequent Shooting Phase.

Is your opponent's Shooting Phase and Assault Phase the one used by your models? Aside from striking back in the Assault Phase, Sweeping, Falling Back, and other datasheet specific rules, the answer is no. They do not do anything in your opponent's phases, but they do have many options of actions available in their owner's phases. Basic extrapolation from there then indicates that the one the phases the models possess as "theirs" is their owning player's phases. Which means that the consideration isn't made until the models can check for Targets to Shoot or to Charge.

So, Rhino with Grav Gun/Cannon Tac Squad inside gets Wrecked. Unit Disembarks as required. They do not move in their Movement Phase because the player is happy where they are at. No Librarian is in the unit so Psychic Phase is ignored for this unit. Shooting Phase comes up. Since this is their following Shooting Phase, the Grav Gun and Cannon are considered to have moved, so are limited to half range and first firing rate listed.

[mhelm01]

So, Rhino with Grav Gun/Cannon Tac Squad inside gets Wrecked. Unit Disembarks as required. They do not move in their Movement Phase because the player is happy where they are at. No Librarian is in the unit so Psychic Phase is ignored for this unit. Shooting Phase comes up. Since this is their following Shooting Phase, the Grav Gun and Cannon are considered to have moved, so are limited to half range and first firing rate listed.

While I see your side of this, but your explanation is flawed. With your argument they would not move, not because the player is happy with their position, but because they already count as having moved this game turn. They are able to have an in sequence movement phase in between disembarkation (out of sequence movement) and shooting, then the previous movement would refer the the one at the beginning of the controlling players turn.

[lokiwhacker]

"Counted as moved" isn't the same as "cannot move".

If you move 1inch, you "count as moved" but you can still move 5 more inches.

[Charistoph]

While I see your side of this, but your explanation is flawed. With your argument they would not move, not because the player is happy with their position, but because they already count as having moved this game turn. They are able to have an in sequence movement phase in between disembarkation (out of sequence movement) and shooting, then the previous movement would refer the the one at the beginning of the controlling players turn.

Incorrect. You have placed a burden on my position that I have not stated. Neither I, nor the rules, stated anything regarding the movement phase.

The statement "counting as having moved that turn" comes after the statement regarding shooting and running in their following Shooting Phase. It does not state "counting as having moved" before that point, as it goes through the Psychic and Assault Phases as well in order.

So, from this, the concept that "counting as having moved that turn" is a caveat for the model in their following Shooting Phase, makes sense, and could be written as "After disembarking, models can manifest their psychic powers and either shoot or Run in their subsequent Shooting phase (counting as having moved that turn), but they cannot declare a charge in their subsequent Assault phase."

[mhelm01]

No. The comma separates the clauses. The op is talking about disembarking from a destroyed vehicle in their opponents turn. The fact that you can move in the next movement phase as normal counters your argument.

[Charistoph]

No. The comma separates the clauses. The op is talking about disembarking from a destroyed vehicle in their opponents turn. The fact that you can move in the next movement phase as normal counters your argument.

Then why no comma between Psychic Powers, Shooting, and Run? If it was only pertinent to the Movement Phase than it would be listed first, because of how lists operate.