The Force Awakens - Spoilerific Discussion.

[Erik Setzer]

seeing Rey instinctively match Kylo in the Force within moments of learning she even had powers.

Oh?

You mean seeing Rey finally get to even footing with a guy who was leaking blood from a torso wound from a weapon that wrecked fully armored soldiers, had already had to fight an exhausting duel against a guy who was well trained with melee weapons, and had already fought another duel and had her backed to the edge when the Force suddenly intervened to give her a chance against a weakened and injured foe?

Lack of real threat for the good guys? Because one of them DYING didn't represent real threat? All those X-Wings being blown apart, an entire system's worth of planets, two of the good guys captured at points by Kylo, one of the good guys going into a coma after taking a lightsaber to the back, that stuff didn't represent real threat?

Oh, you're meaning after the duel, when there was just five minutes left to wrap up the movie and shouldn't have had any more conflict? Oh, well, sure, of course we didn't feel they were in more danger.

It's also worth remembering Snoke referenced Kylo's training not being complete.

As for Snoke's name... Ahem. Darth Vader. Obi-Wan. Chewbacca. Skywalker. Jabba. Greedo. Sidious. Maul. Dooku. Tyrannus. Qui-Gon. Padme. Wicket. These are all pre-Disney. Some of the names we know and love now, but when they first showed up, you can bet people felt they were pretty weird names.

[Kirsten]

better than Episode VII :P

still the best Vader vid

[Mr Mystery]

I've always felt that Tarkin's supremacy over Vader is important.

Vader is the Emperor's attack dog. Nothing more, nothing less. He's not respected, he's only feared. Consider the conference room scene. That officer calls him out, in much the same way as saying 'yeah, well where's the plan then, you prick'.

Small temper tantrum, called off by Tarkin. It's Tarkin in charge, 100%, not Vader.

[YorkNecromancer]

It's the scale of the two men; the difference's like comparing a serial killer to Genghis Khan. Vader's the man for when you need someone dead; Tarkin's the man when you need everyone gone.

Battlefield tactics vs global strategy.

And Tarkin is Peter Cushing, and so for me at least, he will always be better.

[Mr Mystery]

True that. And far scarier than Vader. Because Vader will only kill you.

Tarkin will have you tortured, and then **** your entire planet.

[Kirsten]

ha, excellent

[Tyrendian]

Oh?

You mean seeing Rey finally get to even footing with a guy who was leaking blood from a torso wound from a weapon that wrecked fully armored soldiers, had already had to fight an exhausting duel against a guy who was well trained with melee weapons, and had already fought another duel and had her backed to the edge when the Force suddenly intervened to give her a chance against a weakened and injured foe?

Lack of real threat for the good guys? Because one of them DYING didn't represent real threat? All those X-Wings being blown apart, an entire system's worth of planets, two of the good guys captured at points by Kylo, one of the good guys going into a coma after taking a lightsaber to the back, that stuff didn't represent real threat?

Oh, you're meaning after the duel, when there was just five minutes left to wrap up the movie and shouldn't have had any more conflict? Oh, well, sure, of course we didn't feel they were in more danger.

It's also worth remembering Snoke referenced Kylo's training not being complete.

As for Snoke's name... Ahem. Darth Vader. Obi-Wan. Chewbacca. Skywalker. Jabba. Greedo. Sidious. Maul. Dooku. Tyrannus. Qui-Gon. Padme. Wicket. These are all pre-Disney. Some of the names we know and love now, but when they first showed up, you can bet people felt they were pretty weird names.

no, when Rey's been held captive for who knows how long, trained (finished or not he has had a lot of training from both sides) Mister Kylo comes in and she wins a duel of the minds pretty convincingly. That's the scene I was referring to. I'll freely admit Kylo's good at taking hits in the final battle, but I'd still have expected him to do a LOT better against Finn, who amounts to a trained professional but no more than that, with a totally unfamiliar, exotic weapon, against our supposed "main villain" with his personal favourite super-badass weapon. Again, I wouldn't have minded Kylo done as he was if there had been a separate "real evil badass" to rival the ones we know from the series.
Han dying as he did when he did didn't surprise me much; felt like an obvious plot device to do.
Some nameless XWings being shot down by nameless TIEs? No, doesn't faze me, especially not after Poe has established he can shoot down any number of TIEs you care to name. Both of the fighter combat sequences just didn't manage to create the same sense of desperation (for me) as the attacks on the Death Stars did.
Starkiller Base? OK nice gun, but we've seen Death Stars before...
And dunno, Supreme Leader Snoke (it's not so much the name itself, more the title...) just isn't a name I could really imagine to be threatening...

All this doesn't mean I didn't like TFA - I very much enjoyed it!

[Erik Setzer]

Finn was supposed to be at the top of his class with hand-to-hand training, I think only Nines was on his level. They trained with melee weapons. A lightsaber is a melee weapon. It's just a glowing energy sword. That's all. The only reason more people don't use them is because shooting someone with your blaster is better than pulling out an energy sword and trying to charge them while they shoot you (and your average person won't be able to deflect all the incoming blaster fire... even some Jedi can't). I think people are making way too much of lightsabers.

As for Rey's mental "duel," I don't think it's a "clear win." He found out things about her, she found resolve, instinctively shut doors, and then kind of traveled back through the link he opened between them and spotted his surface thoughts. That's it. Given that Kylo's training wasn't complete, he likely wasn't trained to deal with someone who actually had Force potential (especially as all of the known people with said potential, sans Luke and Leia, were pretty much dead).

The guy's good. We just also have capable heroes (though Rey is NOT a "Mary Sue" like people keep saying).

[grimmas]

It's not really TFA but I want to see more of the New Order. In fact I think it detracts from the story somewhat that the baddies are basically a bunch of incompetents. What I'd like to see from an "other" film would be a Finn prequel in the manner of Rogue One but with his squad and Phasma basically going round doing a bit of oppressing and kicking a bit of arse to make them a bit more credible, may be cert 15 it up a bit. I know it's a bit of a stretch now it's gone Disney but they do a very good Evil Queen so I think they've got it in them.

[Erik Setzer]

Well, we already have a Finn "prequel" story with his first (and only other) field action in the "Before the Awakening" book. But the glimpse it gives us into the First Order makes them sound more interesting than we can see in the movie.

I don't think they're that incompetent, either. They did manage to take out the Hosnian system, which is a crippling blow to the Republic. They salvaged a lot of their equipment and people on the planet/base.

Phasma got caught by surprise, could happen to anyone. She felt her soldiers could deal with the situation and there was no real threat. In theory, she should have been right.

The Falcon only got through the shields by trying a near-suicidal stunt. The X-Wings couldn't get through the external layers of the most vulnerable part of the weapon. It took a "perfect storm" of the ground team managing to get over to the dome and plant some explosives, letting an X-Wing slip in to shoot up the place. That's not a set of circumstances you expect to happen.

They probably aren't as polished as the Empire, though. They're using kids raised with propaganda to be soldiers, not volunteers. They're still trying to build up their power structure.

But yeah, totally agree I'd love to see more. The books hint at a pretty good military force created in the shadows. Resurgent class Star Destroyers are twice the length of ISDs and carry more weapons than an SSD, even (and the squadrons and ground troops to definitely take a world with just one ship). The TIE Fighters are upgraded, even the standard version. They've clearly trained their Stormtroopers to do quick drop-in-and-fight missions. Add in the things like holographic training (with hardened holographs), propaganda (that the armed forces must stop and pay attention to twice a day)... There's a lot of potential for stories.