The Force Awakens - Spoilerific Discussion.

[Kirsten]

I thought Ren seemed interesting until he took his helmet off and revealed himself to be Napoleon Dynamite...

[odinsgrandson]

Do you think its been long enough to be less punctilious about adding all the spoiler tags?

I figured it was because the beginning of most posts get copied and shown on the side of the forum pages to everyone visiting BolS.

If you're reading the thread, you've seen the film (or had it all spoiled for you by now). So I don't feel like they're for us.

[Charistoph]

spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler spoiler

Kylo Ren wasn't exactly dazzling with his own skill, and we saw earlier in the film she's damned handy with a quarter staff. We have no reason to assume that was ever the total of her skill in combat.

I think people forget that Ren is not, actually shown to be a great fighter as Mr M says. He does a fancy trick on Jakku sure, but most of the action is accomplished by stormtroopers, and we find out mid way through the film he worried hw will never measure up to Vader. Which he won't. His whole thing is he cultivates the LOOK of a badass Sith but he isn't one, and its telling that many guys have an easier time believing Ren was a badass despite little support for it than believing Rey is despite it being quite clearly demonstrated by the very fact she survives on Jakku alone since she was ickle.

No, Ren is not shown as a great fighter. He allows his emotions to control him too much. This is not matching the Sith Code, though, so he can be overwhelmed by someone fresh, but in control of her emotions and linked with the Force.

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

If one allows their emotions to control them, they are enchained. And Ren was definitely being tied up by something, and it wasn't just the belly wound.

[Erik Setzer]

[url=http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2016/01/05/hasbro-responds-to-reys-exclusion-from-star-wars-monopoly/]Allegedly, the current lack of Rey toys and merchandise was to do with potential spoilers.[/url]

Not entirely sure I believe, but there's a promise of more to come, which adds to plausibility given lead times for design and production.

Yeah, I call bull****. They could have produced toys of her sans lightsaber. It's that easy. She only uses it at the end of the movie, the staff is more associated with her. She uses the staff in Disney Infinity (and a pistol), and it's perfectly fine. I have a POP of her with the staff on my desk, looks fine. Heck, her holding Anakin's saber would probably be less interesting, because it's not her weapon.

So the "spoilers" claim is bollocks.

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Do we really need a third Death Star?

Well, that's what half the EU was, finding new superweapons to throw out there. Dark Empire had multiple Star Destroyers with planet-destroying lasers, a "Galaxy Gun," and Palpatine could destroy worlds himself. The Jedi Academy trilogy had the Sun Crusher. Courtship of Princess Leia had, IIRC, satellites that could black out a world. (They became a lot less silly in the way the X-Wing novels used them, but in those cases Zsinj only used a handful, to cover very small areas, most notably to hide the Second Death until it could be used to fake Iron Fist's destruction.) It just expanded from there. People loved the EU, though. Apparently superweapons are part of the Star Wars DNA.

I'm hoping we don't have another, though. Sure, okay, I'm fine with Starkiller. But at this point, I think it's proven those are a bad idea. Especially when you have a fleet of extremely upgraded Star Destroyers.

Or a new Cantina?

Yes. There are never enough cantinas. More boozing it up among bunches of aliens!

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She could wipe the floor with ANH Luke and 99% of the turds attacking Rey as unrealistic.

The character spent her whole life scavenging in the ruins of giant ships. I could definitely believe all the stuff she was doing, even without the Force as a crutch to lean on (which Anakin had).

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Do you think its been long enough to be less punctilious about adding all the spoiler tags?

It's especially silly in a topic labeled for spoiler discussion...

I think people forget that Ren is not, actually shown to be a great fighter as Mr M says. He does a fancy trick on Jakku sure, but most of the action is accomplished by stormtroopers, and we find out mid way through the film he worried hw will never measure up to Vader. Which he won't. His whole thing is he cultivates the LOOK of a badass Sith but he isn't one, and its telling that many guys have an easier time believing Ren was a badass despite little support for it than believing Rey is despite it being quite clearly demonstrated by the very fact she survives on Jakku alone since she was ickle.

I think both are capable in their own way, but Rey is a lot better because she actually has it together emotionally (for the most part... parents are still a sore spot). Ren would probably be a lot more dangerous if he wasn't unhinged inside, dealing with a conflict on who he is.

Also, who are these "many guys" who actually believe Ren is a badass? I've seen a depressing number of people claiming he's a wimp because he couldn't win a lightsaber fight (after being shot by a Stormtrooper-wrecking weapon, killing his own dad to try to stop the conflict in his head, and having just had another lightsaber fight).

Personally, I think they're both "badasses" in their own right, but they also both have limitations... like real people.

[Erik Setzer]

Fan reaction got Hasbro to wise up:

[url]http://www.slashgear.com/rey-fans-rejoice-the-force-awakens-monopoly-will-feature-the-heroine-06421669/[/url]

To make it really right, they'll need to have a plan to be willing to send copies to anyone who already bought the Rey-less version.

[Mr Mystery]

Spoiler thing was to prevent the sidebar interfering

But yes. I think we can dispense with them now!

[odinsgrandson]

Clearly Kylo Ren is a badass because he has a red lightsaber. Can you name anyone in the movies that gets a red lightsaber without first being a badass?

Yeah, that's what I've got. We never really get to see Sith in training, but you figure they have to start somewhere, right?

No, Ren is not shown as a great fighter. He allows his emotions to control him too much. This is not matching the Sith Code...

Actually, I feel like we're seeing two very different revisions of what George Lucas wrote:

- George's Sith are guys who act completely stoic all the time (Sidious, Dooku, Vader and Maul). Apparently, however, you get there by giving in to your emotions and unleashing your anger. But for all of their talk, they don't show their anger.

- David Gaider (of Bioware) wrote the Sith Code for Knights of the Old Republic. According to it, Sith need to be passionate and through that they gain power. It says nothing of controlling emotions.

(Of course, anything not in the seven films or Holiday Special should be considered B cannon)

- Abram's Kylo Ren follows what is taught- but not what is shown. Ren gives in to his anger and lets his emotions dictate his actions, just like Darth Vader and the Sith Code suggest.

But the Code does not advise that Sith should become the stoic, distanced sociopaths that we see.

Basically, Emo Ren is a better Sith than we've ever seen before.

[Alaric]

Basically, Emo Ren is a better Sith than we've ever seen before.

Nope.

[Charistoph]

Basically, Emo Ren is a better Sith than we've ever seen before.

AND you missed the point of that entire group of sentences.

[Gotthammer]