The Force Awakens - Spoilerific Discussion.

[Mr Mystery]

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Also, thinking back, I liked how Maz herself didn't seem scared or angry that the First Order were attacking - and given her earlier speech about having seen evil in many forms over the past thousand years, that's entirely appropriate.

So excite! So chuff!

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I've seen it 3 times already. O_O

New Republic - gone
Rey - awesome
BB8 - awesome
X Wings - super great
Homages - top, but dangerously close to being too much
Kylo Ren - Interesting character, if not a little bit of a b*tch.
Han's death - tragic!
Han shouting "Ben!" - such a powerfully delivered line 'you will listen to me because you are still my son' in one word.

Cannot wait to see the rest of the Knights. Finn and Rey had amazing character development throughout the film, but Rey definitely got me on the light side of the force.
Hopes?
Don't make Luke fight... Keep him as a tutor. Although, him sacrificing himself to save Rey would be cool.
I hope Rey isn't his daughter.

[Arkhan Land]

SPOILER SORT OF

BIG BIG QUestion this left with me, do the dark jedi/sith see their own deceased the same way the good jedis do? is kylo ren really being a twerp or is he possesed? when darth vader "killed the good man who was" anakin is there some part of him that manifests seperately?

if this was the case would luke know about it when training his young apprentice?

like is there a reason why kylo talks to vader's mask even having never met him?

btw did some research according to some info from clonewars cannon info the sith cannot, but anakin learned how from qui and obi and therefore had been trained before his turning, so maybe this created an inherently dangerous situation for someone who could see his force ghosts

so yeah callin it now, when darth teenage rebel talks to that mask he sometimes hears vaders voice

[Mr Mystery]

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[url=http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars/38296/star-wars-the-force-awakens-what-didnt-we-see]Denofgeek have a decent article listing the stuff we don't know. Worth a read.[/url]

And, Daniel Craig did have a cameo as a Stormtrooper. He's the one Rey mind tricks. How cool is that?

[Mr Mystery]

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Sod it, gonna go see it again on Monday

[Denzark]

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Just out. Massive sense of relief that they didn't **** it up completely.

Few quibbles though:

Novices with light sabres being totally and beyond competent with them (Finn/Rey).
Republic not having dealt with FO.
Poe Dameron - arrogant as Dash Rendar.
Kylo without mask - reminded me of Master/Blaster without mask in Mad Max beyond Thunderdome. Weak unthreatening features. Does the lack of Sith yellow eyes mean he will be forgiven?
'Starkiller' - really? No, really? And although 4 times the size of Death Star 1, it has a fatal flaw of 'kill the shields with a commando team and then attack 1 weak point with fighters' - I mean come on, JJ, I know you like tributes - the chess set on the Falcon was genius, 'Starkiller' was contrived.
'Resistance'. Why is there a Republic and a Resistance? Why did the designs of A- and B-Wings not survive into their armoury when upgrading T-65 to T-70 is a thing?
Why has Leia not got a lightsabre and jedi training?


Will defo watch again, and was better than prequels (better star wars film than Spectre was a Bond film) but has not supplanted Empire or Jedi for me yet.

[Erik Setzer]

Saw it this morning, first showing of the day. It was so much better than I expected. I have to see it more times in theater, and I will preorder the moment I can.

I actually like Kylo Ren - or should I say Ben? - even more now. I mean, sure, he's still kind of a jerk. But he's a more interesting character than just someone who was totally evil. It seems he ended up looking up to Vader because Vader was pretty much the most powerful Jedi around, and he wants to be like Vader as he understands Vader to have been, but he just can't get rid of his conscience. In the end, he has to kill Han in an effort to try to purge the last of the good in him... but it's questionable as to whether that actually worked, and the anger he's directing outward might be anger at himself for doing such a thing and still being no stronger than he was. He's a conflicted character, nowhere near one dimensional.

I loved all the new characters added. I'm glad I've found out Poe and Phasma are already coming back. Phasma didn't get much screen time, but you can tell she's a serious no-nonsense leader. Poe is just all around awesome, right from the start where he's sassing Ren like no one's business.

I swear I could just gush on and on about scenes I liked, callbacks I liked, how awesome the new X-Wings are, how good it looked, all kinds of stuff... but I'll contain myself for now and just say, that... was... AWESOME.

Now on to seeing what other folks are posting and joining the discussion!

And now for Mr Mystery's Top Three Mysteries......seriously spoilers coming.....

1. Why did Kylo Ren take out the Jedi? I want to know that story, and I really hope Episode VIII concentrates on that.
2. Just how big is The First Order?
3. Why are the Resistance not the Republic?

1. Sounds like Luke tried to teach them about Vader, probably to teach them that you don't have to be all bad and also the history of the Jedi, and Ben picked up on just Vader being ultra powerful and Dark Side. (If you want to see Vader at his nastiest in the new canon, check the Vader Down crossover currently going in the comics. He takes out so many Rebels it's ridiculous.) So on his first step to going the Vader route, he slaughters all the other trainees.
2. Probably a pretty good size, at least a few dozen systems. Seems to be Imperial Remnants that banded together.
3. From what I got from the movie, it seems the Republic has taken over most of the galaxy again, but not all of it. Rather than being officially at war with the First Order, they fund the Resistance through back channels. Everyone knows it's happening, but officially they're neutral in that conflict. It's sort of like western nations arming rebels in a Middle Eastern country to pick a winner... only in this case the Republic knows the Resistance will lead systems to them.

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Oh also, how amazing is Lupita N'yongo? Completely cgi character and she still stole her scenes and was amazing, Maz Kanata ftw.

Yes!!! She was brilliant. The character didn't stick out that much as full CGI. It's like an example of how to do it right. But she was pretty awesome, and I'm glad she didn't die in the attack. Sucks that her place got wrecked.

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I really hope Phasma returns. Really, really hope she returns. Her character didn't play much of a role, but then Gwendoline Christie was added relatively late in the day.

She's said she'll be back as Phasma in Episode VIII. Probably with more of a chip on her shoulder after that mess!

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How is Rey so strong with the Force? why is Ren so bad with a light sabre?

I'm guess Rey might be related to the family somewhere, especially with what happened when she touched Luke's saber. Or she's just a really Force-sensitive person who never knew.

Ren isn't terrible with a saber, but he likely didn't get much practice with it at Luke's training, and he fights very angry, which makes him sloppy. Especially at the end there, he got shot right after he killed Han, so he's already walking around bleeding a lot and hurt, then keeps taking slices that must also hurt, all the while pissed off at people in his way and probably pissed off that he killed his own father and feels no less conflicted for it.

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like is there a reason why kylo talks to vader's mask even having never met him?

Simple: He's having a one-way conversation. People do it all the time, talking to inanimate objects, even things that hold no sentiments but are just objects. In this case, it's his grandfather's old mask, so he feels that it gives him a "connection" to his granfather, even though it doesn't. For him, it's still enough, it lets him convince himself that he's on the right path.

[Arkhan Land]

1. Sounds like Luke tried to teach them about Vader, probably to teach them that you don't have to be all bad and also the history of the Jedi, and Ben picked up on just Vader being ultra powerful and Dark Side. (If you want to see Vader at his nastiest in the new canon, check the Vader Down crossover currently going in the comics. He takes out so many Rebels it's ridiculous.) So on his first step to going the Vader route, he slaughters all the other trainees.

Simple: He's having a one-way conversation. People do it all the time, talking to inanimate objects, even things that hold no sentiments but are just objects. In this case, it's his grandfather's old mask, so he feels that it gives him a "connection" to his granfather, even though it doesn't. For him, it's still enough, it lets him convince himself that he's on the right path.

I don't neccesarily think its so simple, and I think it has to do with what went wrong with his training. There's a bunch of focus on this in the clone wars with specifically the First Jedi Temple being the place where Obi/Qui/Yoda train on post mortem manifestation and it being the place where luke is trying to find in this movie has me sort of curious

[Gotthammer]

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Novices with light sabres being totally and beyond competent with them (Finn/Rey).

Well we saw the Stormtrooper with the tonfa so can be assumed they have training in a variety of melee weapons (and Finn didn't do particularly well in either fight). And Rey was proficient with her beatstick, and when she fought Kylo he was, as Erik noted, wounded and not thinking straight as well as how trained he is being up for debate.

And besides, they're the good guys!

Why has Leia not got a lightsabre and jedi training?

She didn't want it? Too busy being an awesome General and political leader to get training? Jedi training has doesn't have enough sarcasm, yelling and shooting things for her style?

[Mr Mystery]

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Yup.

Besides, who is left to teach the kids Lightsaber fighting? Luke wasn't exactly proficient himself, and it's seems age and a robotic body slowed down Obi Wan and Vader respectively.

I'm beginning to wonder if Rey might be Palpatine's daughter....