Did the Summer of Sigmar kill interest in 40k?

[Cutter]

I'm currently kicking myself for not narrowing down the topic on this thread. I don't want it to spiral into yet another "AoS and GW suck!!!" because as much as I'm sympathetic to that viewpoint, I'm also sick of reading about it.

Basically I wanted to know if that 12-week vacation from the rapid fire 40k releases "kill the mood" for you? I can't really tell if it did for me or not because I had a rather significant life event that directly impacted my 40k participation and haven't recovered since - but it seems to me that even from my friends that DIDN'T go through what I did have let off of the "enthusiasm pedal".

For me? No. My 40k is pretty firmly rooted in the past of the company as it is, so though I'm interested in release schedules and current shenanigans my 40kness does not rely on it. Just finished off my Macragge and Black Reach smurfs, deciding whether to finally get round to the Dark Vengeance Dangles or that 2nd edition Ork Battlewagon I bought off ebay last year.

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My mood has indeed been killed, but it wasn't the ebb in releases that did it. I won't rant about AoS and WHFB here - but that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I've begrudgingly moved on and found an "oldhammer" group on Facebook that proudly shows off their old miniatures from when I last really, truly enjoyed the hobby...those ugly but characterful Rogue-Trader and 2nd Edition miniatures that look shoddy compared to the modern stuff but to me represent the "glory days" of 40k. So I guess now I'm just a hobby hermit, staring into his own navel and wistfully yearning for the old days of deodorant stick tanks and "Space Slann."

Brother!

[Andrew Thomas]

I'm sliding from mere ambivalence to outright defection these days, and none of that is a result of this Summer of Sigmar. AoS was a boon to me, because I could finally play Fantasy in a way that I'm satisfied (the lack of rigid organization was the best thing that ever happened to my plans to build a Clan Skryre list, and KoW's Ratmen list did nothing to change that, and if I was still interested, a Strigoi list might still be in my future). Damocles had fun elements in both books, especially the new AM and White Scars stuff, too. But what has driven me away, towards Warzone, is price. But for Prodos' less than reliable distribution, I'd have 2 complete armies by now, while for the same money, I'd have about a third of 1 40k list. The fluff is also decent, and the rules aren't plagued with rhetorical flourishes (read: corner cases) either.

In summary: if the SoS did anything to kill 40k, it demonstrated a tacit contempt for the customer.

[Popsical]

The SoS didnt kill 40k for me at all. It killed WFB for me tho.
My small group are pretty addicted to keeping up to date at all costs with 40/30k and WFB. Once WFB died and AoS came along, interest it seems died in my group because WFB was no longer going to evolve constantly and keep them ploughing cash into it.
30k gained all the money from this death of WFB from all three of my gaming friends as it is the current GW cash cow and rapidly evolving.
40k died during 6th ed for my group due to many factors:
1) 30k becoming mainstream
2) formations
3) the release of 7th ed so quickly after 6th whilst not really solving any of the problems of 6th
4) codexs being made redundant seemingly a year or two after release
5) total confusion regarding army composition and rules due to the whole toy box current style of 40k

30k has given my friends a game with definition and growth to keep them spending cash in bucket loads but with a direction in mind.
40k has died because they arent engaged by the whole "whatever" attitude GW have pushed in regards to building and buying your army.

Personally i cant wait for 8th ed, because ive not liked the rules since 4th ed at all. I still buy the odd model to paint, but ive found other games to invest my time and limited money in. The way i see it, GW have taken a 25+ year old skirmish game and tried to turn it into Epic, without changing the core of the system. For me this hasnt worked at all. The addition of super powerful units has meant the lesser units have had to have more extra rules to keep them vaguely viable, a sort of plaster or patch to keep them selling. More and more units have been given inv saves and feel no pain and other bandage rules because without them they just dont last on the tabletop. Much like earlier editions where fearless became so popular that morale became a non-existent feature in 40k, units are now being given a variety of rules to stop them snuffing it because of the sheer number of weapons that place an old LP record on the table to see how many models are removed.

[Cutter]

The SoS didnt kill 40k for me at all. It killed WFB for me tho.
My small group are pretty addicted to keeping up to date at all costs with 40/30k and WFB. Once WFB died and AoS came along, interest it seems died in my group because WFB was no longer going to evolve constantly and keep them ploughing cash into it.
30k gained all the money from this death of WFB from all three of my gaming friends as it is the current GW cash cow and rapidly evolving.
40k died during 6th ed for my group due to many factors:
1) 30k becoming mainstream
2) formations
3) the release of 7th ed so quickly after 6th whilst not really solving any of the problems of 6th
4) codexs being made redundant seemingly a year or two after release
5) total confusion regarding army composition and rules due to the whole toy box current style of 40k

30k has given my friends a game with definition and growth to keep them spending cash in bucket loads but with a direction in mind.
40k has died because they arent engaged by the whole "whatever" attitude GW have pushed in regards to building and buying your army.

Personally i cant wait for 8th ed, because ive not liked the rules since 4th ed at all. I still buy the odd model to paint, but ive found other games to invest my time and limited money in. The way i see it, GW have taken a 25+ year old skirmish game and tried to turn it into Epic, without changing the core of the system. For me this hasnt worked at all. The addition of super powerful units has meant the lesser units have had to have more extra rules to keep them vaguely viable, a sort of plaster or patch to keep them selling. More and more units have been given inv saves and feel no pain and other bandage rules because without them they just dont last on the tabletop. Much like earlier editions where fearless became so popular that morale became a non-existent feature in 40k, units are now being given a variety of rules to stop them snuffing it because of the sheer number of weapons that place an old LP record on the table to see how many models are removed.

So do you think 30k will kill 40k?

[Erik Setzer]

replace much of the fluff with a short bit of writing about each individual unit entry.

Well, the earliest codices *did* have that format (ditto army books for WFB), but it was also due to the format, where they would describe the unit and have the more in-depth rules for the unit in a section, and leave the army list cleaner.

The Ork codex looked like they were going to try to find a way to put all of that info on one page for each unit (which would shorten the fluff for a unit, but that's not terrible unless it's a special character or very unique unit... they described the characters elsewhere in that book, so it worked). Newer releases have, in many cases, gone back to having a page for the unit fluff, plus the unit entry's fluff, which I think isn't so much replacing fluff as just them not having the time to come up with new filler and just filling the pages with the prior unit fluff and more artwork.

A good balance would be nice, but it's not really a new issue that's crept up. And, though I still feel they're charging way too much for the books, at least it's not as bad as when they stripped them down to almost no fluff for 3rd edition. (Actually, I don't know... releasing pure game books at a cheap price, with fluff books optional for people who want those, would probably be a good marketing step, and they might have been onto something in 3rd edition, if they'd just put the fluff *somewhere* rather than leaving it MIA.)

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(the lack of rigid organization was the best thing that ever happened to my plans to build a Clan Skryre list,

I remember in 6th edition, maybe early 7th(?), my dad put together a "Clan Skryre" army. Multiple units of Clanrats with Ratling Guns, multiple Warlock Engineers, artillery, some Jezzails... just stood there and tore into armies until they got close, then let the Clanrats bog them down while the guns kept firing into combat. Amusing army to play (and when I repair the display board, will look neat on a shelf), but it could feel OP at times, which is probably why they ditched it. (I used a modified version with Grey Seers and stuff to get over 20 casting dice at 3000 points to play a guy's "unbeatable" Daemon army to help him prove it was beatable... he still won, but that's because my dice find it amusing to try out every possible bad result with Skaven.)

Bit of a detour there, sorry, but I have fond memories of playing Skaven, even when I lost terribly.

[Popsical]

So do you think 30k will kill 40k?

No, i think the two will become less separate over time and maybe even merge in the distant future.

[Cutter]

No, i think the two will become less separate over time and maybe even merge in the distant future.

35k or 70k?

[Popsical]

35k or 70k?

Nah. Warhammer Age of Epraaah!
Where can they go with 8th ed anyways?
The return of the primarchs is guaranteed eventually in 40k so it will become more alike to 30k anyway.

[daboarder]

I think when GW was releasing a constant rush of products people were caught up in the release pace then AOS dropped, the focus swung off 40k and people started playing other games while they waited.
Its also interesting to note that the fan fair about the return of 40k products hasnt been all that massive, you didnt here much in the community about betrayal at calth at all really.
Wonder if this means people have gotten tired of the release pace and product quality now that they have had a chance to breathe and look at other companies.

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The SoS didnt kill 40k for me at all. It killed WFB for me tho.
My small group are pretty addicted to keeping up to date at all costs with 40/30k and WFB. Once WFB died and AoS came along, interest it seems died in my group because WFB was no longer going to evolve constantly and keep them ploughing cash into it.
30k gained all the money from this death of WFB from all three of my gaming friends as it is the current GW cash cow and rapidly evolving.
40k died during 6th ed for my group due to many factors:
1) 30k becoming mainstream
2) formations
3) the release of 7th ed so quickly after 6th whilst not really solving any of the problems of 6th
4) codexs being made redundant seemingly a year or two after release
5) total confusion regarding army composition and rules due to the whole toy box current style of 40k

30k has given my friends a game with definition and growth to keep them spending cash in bucket loads but with a direction in mind.
40k has died because they arent engaged by the whole "whatever" attitude GW have pushed in regards to building and buying your army.

Personally i cant wait for 8th ed, because ive not liked the rules since 4th ed at all. I still buy the odd model to paint, but ive found other games to invest my time and limited money in. The way i see it, GW have taken a 25+ year old skirmish game and tried to turn it into Epic, without changing the core of the system. For me this hasnt worked at all. The addition of super powerful units has meant the lesser units have had to have more extra rules to keep them vaguely viable, a sort of plaster or patch to keep them selling. More and more units have been given inv saves and feel no pain and other bandage rules because without them they just dont last on the tabletop. Much like earlier editions where fearless became so popular that morale became a non-existent feature in 40k, units are now being given a variety of rules to stop them snuffing it because of the sheer number of weapons that place an old LP record on the table to see how many models are removed.

pretty much this in its entirety

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My mood has indeed been killed, but it wasn't the ebb in releases that did it. I won't rant about AoS and WHFB here - but that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I've begrudgingly moved on and found an "oldhammer" group on Facebook that proudly shows off their old miniatures from when I last really, truly enjoyed the hobby...those ugly but characterful Rogue-Trader and 2nd Edition miniatures that look shoddy compared to the modern stuff but to me represent the "glory days" of 40k. So I guess now I'm just a hobby hermit, staring into his own navel and wistfully yearning for the old days of deodorant stick tanks and "Space Slann."

nice to here you found a group keen on older games. they seem to be cropping up a little around my area too, going to see if I can find some people wanting to play 4th ed 40k using 3rd ed/4th ed codexes.

[Alaric]

The SoS didnt kill 40k for me at all. It killed WFB for me tho.
My small group are pretty addicted to keeping up to date at all costs with 40/30k and WFB. Once WFB died and AoS came along, interest it seems died in my group because WFB was no longer going to evolve constantly and keep them ploughing cash into it.
30k gained all the money from this death of WFB from all three of my gaming friends as it is the current GW cash cow and rapidly evolving.
40k died during 6th ed for my group due to many factors:
1) 30k becoming mainstream
2) formations
3) the release of 7th ed so quickly after 6th whilst not really solving any of the problems of 6th
4) codexs being made redundant seemingly a year or two after release
5) total confusion regarding army composition and rules due to the whole toy box current style of 40k

30k has given my friends a game with definition and growth to keep them spending cash in bucket loads but with a direction in mind.
40k has died because they arent engaged by the whole "whatever" attitude GW have pushed in regards to building and buying your army.

Personally i cant wait for 8th ed, because ive not liked the rules since 4th ed at all. I still buy the odd model to paint, but ive found other games to invest my time and limited money in. The way i see it, GW have taken a 25+ year old skirmish game and tried to turn it into Epic, without changing the core of the system. For me this hasnt worked at all. The addition of super powerful units has meant the lesser units have had to have more extra rules to keep them vaguely viable, a sort of plaster or patch to keep them selling. More and more units have been given inv saves and feel no pain and other bandage rules because without them they just dont last on the tabletop. Much like earlier editions where fearless became so popular that morale became a non-existent feature in 40k, units are now being given a variety of rules to stop them snuffing it because of the sheer number of weapons that place an old LP record on the table to see how many models are removed.

While I have no problem with your attitude towards the game I feel compelled to point out that all the problems you have in your last paragraph (big powerful stuff, fnp etc) ALL those exist in 30K so whats the difference? Tons of stuff in 30K can get fnp. They allow superheavies in an average game and supply many ways to re roll failed morale. Also, the weapons are ridiculous, volkite is crazy good and a deredeo is downright mean.
They also use the exact same rules for the main game with only the Foc and minor differences here n there. I have a hard time wrapping my head around when people claim they are different as night n day when its more like apples and gold plated expensive apples.
So what's the difference?

And Cuz this is the interwebz: im not "comin at you bro'ing" or anything, just asking.