Tactical Squads

[Schultzhoffen]

Is it just me, or do other people think CC weapons on Tac Sergeants are a waste? I get the feeling that a solitary power weapon or power fist is not going to be much help v dedicated assault units and probably not needed against IG, Tau, etc. Furthermore, Tac Squads should avoid combat if at all possible, do the odd bit of shooting and take objectives (at least that's how I see it). Therefore, they should be fairly cheap.

The next question is: what is the best way to equip the squad? I like a combi melta or Plasma for Sgt and melta or plasma and a Multi melta. Oh, and Rhino Mech all the way?

My tac squads come in after the heavy hitters and hold ground. They're mainly defensive.

How do other people equip and use their squads?

I believe that a MM is the default heavy weapon of choice (followed by a Missile Laucher). Any thoughts about that?

Enlighten me, gentlemen (and ladies).

[emperorsaxe]

The two tac squads in my SM army are led by vet sgt's who are both armed with power weapons and storm bolters. I'am however starting to rethink the issue with the storm bolters tho'. They add the extra die for shooting but in the trade off I lose one attack because of it. As to the two CC weps I'd drop the chainsword and at the very least go with a power wep. The one thing I'm not to hip to is the powerglove on the vet sgt it looks cool and all but IMHO striking last in close combat is a drawback especially against swarm type armies. On the heavy wep choices subject I can't help ya there as I run my tac squads without a heavy wep. Just my two bolter rounds worth tho'.
Respects, Emperorsaxe

[eagleboy7259]

Not at all!! I love the CC's on my Vet. Sarge. You have to figure that to get the most effect out of your squads you'll typically be around 24" from the enemy squad. Decent chance that the enemy will be able to reach you in a turn or two depending on the unit, and if the enemy isn't a dedicated assault specailist, then you usually have a decent chance to assault them and win.

Heavy Weapons? only in a combat squad. No reason to waste your 9 bolters for one missile shot. And either the Rhino or Drop Pod

[DarkLink]

Powerfists are useful, as it gives the unit the ability to threaten IC's and Dreadnoughts, as well as taking down a few assaulters.

Power weapons are pretty much not worth the points, though.

[Slann]

P. fists go better on sgt. than IC do to the fact you have to kill all the marines befor you get to that fist , which can auto kill most IC , get threw light armor . and wound big bugs .

[Vince]

Power Weapon is a total waste. 2 power weapon attacks at str 4 ws 4 int 4 is crap. Powerfist can be good. If you run a lot of tactical squads most likely you will be moving one or two towards objectives on the enemy side. These squads can use a fist. I would not give a fist for any squad you intend to babysit objectives on your side. There is nothing better then putting a power fist sergeant on a IC and watching him instant death it.

[fuzzbuket]

why dont you try this:
10 marines,power fist 1meltagun, 1mm/las/missle

combat squids
1 sits on objective and shoots, (pref a objective FAR away in your deployment)
1goes tank+MC+IC hunting

if in drop pod no combat squids , hide behind pod and shoot, till no more H-weapon targets, then run to objective

my not-so-game-winning-theroie (sorry for spelling)

Fuzzbuket

[RogueGarou]

Well, there's the rub, isn't it? Just my views on Sergeants and their kit but here goes. Sergeants have been kitted out differently than their charges since 2nd Ed when I started playing. I'm used to that idea and it can be seen as fluffy and even somewhat sensible as the NCO has other duties than the troopers under his command. Once upon a time, you WERE REQUIRED to buy a power axe for a Long Fangs Pack Leader. That was the rule. You would probably have to try to get a bolter on a sergeant or have a dedicated assault element to get a pistol and true close combat weapon on anyone else. That may be the difference in things now. Old ruleset said every single model was equipped with a combat knife or similar implement of massively destructive potential. But if you had a true close combat weapon, a sword, axe, pike, halberd, chain weapon, power weapon, etc. you got bonuses to your close quarters capability. Newer rulesets have classed all of the melee weapons into close combat weapon description to speed things up and streamline it a bit. Cool beans.

The sergeant, to me, is envisioned as every hard as nails movie NCO you have ever seen. He leads his men by being the toughest guy in the squad and he carries out his orders. He has a different role within the squad than standing on the firing line and gunning down the enemy; he walks the line barking orders and kicking the bad guys off the parapet so his boys can pour some more fire into the baddies. He carries a chainsword almost like he wears his chevrons and rockers. He stands out. Since this is a fantasy game, he carries a sword or other weapon to kind of fulfill a chivalrous role similar to the idea of a knight. You could also think of the sergeant in a line squad as a kind of special weapon trooper. While all of the soldiers have learned basic knife fighting or bayonet drill, he was singled out to learn a bit of wu shu chainsword or tae kwon axe-in-your-face. Trooper Jenkins learned how to try and not melt his own face off with a plasma gun. They each have different jobs with the equipment to carry out those jobs. Because of his senior status, the sergeant is also tasked with something the rest of the troopers might not want to do: get up close and personal and risk having limbs lopped off.

The close combat sergeant is there to take the close combat fighting to the enemy that gets within the AO of the squad. It is supposed to be decisive and serve to ward off the half-hearted close assaults of troops who are not dedicated to fighting at close quarters. It is there for flexibility. A Tactical Squad has it for flexibility. I think it is perfectly acceptable for a Space Marine or any other sergeant to strap a sword on his hip and trade in his rifle for a carbine or pistol, he has to carry maps and other equipment as well as handle the leadership of his squad after all. While the rest of the guys are establishing fire lanes, he is receiving orders from a lieutenant or higher ranked NCO and may be quite busy minding to those duties.

That said, though, I do not always use the close combat weapon option on sergeants if I do not have to use it. For example, I shy away from it in Guard squads and not having the option of my sergeants carrying a rifle is the only thing I don't really like about the new Codex. With the last Codex, I quite happily fielded all of my line squads with 10 lasguns. My commissioned officers and commissars carried the close-in gear. I also do not normally take power fists in Guard squads because of the lower strength and initiative cost. Some people like them just fine in Guard squads, though.

For a general line squad, I think if you are taking a close combat weapon and you have the option, take a power weapon. It is very useful to ignore armor saves and can damage even character models. Power Fists, Chain Fists, and Lightning Claws are up to your personal choice and points restrictions but they can be useful for making a neat looking model that stands out in the squad and they can give the squad a bit of punch when they get into a situation they would be unable to handle otherwise. For example, your sergeant has a Power Fist and is about to get charged by an Ironclad Dreadnought. You expect to be losing a couple of troopers in just a moment (after the flamer and/or Storm Bolter hits) but you have high hopes of mauling that big metal monstrosity with your 2D6+X hits. Without that chance to hurt the Dread, your squad will be slowly, or not so slowly,torn to shreds. (Remember that Telion and Vindicare users, you can eliminate a squad under the right conditions by just shooting the guy with the correct equipment, vox operators in Guard armies are good choices, too.) Don't forget that the power weapon attacks could mean you actually get to wound Terminators instead of them saving on a 2+. My local group has had more and more Assault Terminators showing up of late and that has become a more important factor.

The CCW adds character to a model and to its squad as well as serving a role on the table. It is a special weapon trooper that lets you hit a little harder on the charge or it may be the most important weapon your squad has in the right circumstances. Just my opinion on things.

[Aldramelech]

Yep, Agree with all of that.

[ggg]

In my 1500 point army I use two tactical squads. Squad A- in a rhino, kitted with flamer, missile and chainsword / boltpistol sgt. The other is B squad, melta gun, multi melta, powerfist bolt gun sgt in a drop pod. The rhino squad don't need the power weapon. Their roles are determined by their wargear. Squad A, is used aggressively against horde units or sits at the back on objectives being cheap, where elite opponets are encountered. Unit B takes the other route- drop pod in and get into the face of elite / armour opponents or drop pod cautiously against hordes. The cheaper squad does tend to get ignored but the flamer is such a soild performer when supported by bolter fire

As I use Pedro Contor I do on occassion, get to use My Tactical squads as assault troops as well - stubborn with an extra attack due to his proximity. The power weapon did not give enough bang for its buck- If there were more Necron players that might be different, so I dropped it for bp and cc. If I had the points I would however, take a combi weapon for squad B to make the most of that first post drop shooting.

For me they are are nicely resilient scoring units that can be deloyed where needed. I always give them a transport and the ability to combat squad is great. Between them, they can do everything - both squads have a st 8 anti tank weapon, close combat resilience and mobility. The power weapon is not so important. I don't like plasma weapons simply because they can't deal with heavy armour, don't instant kill, are expensive and risk killing the firer. The power fist does make enemy characters think twice about charging, deals with most vehicles admirably but is too expensive to have in all units and is a hinderence against horde squads with lower initative. I don't think that a tactical squad can be equipped without considering their 'buddy' units.'

A lot of the better players I come up against use lascannons on their tactical squads and I might look into using them in my future armies- the range is a real attraction when facing so much armour 12 -12 mech transports.