Playing with non-gw models

[Dahli.Llama]

As long as they are consistent, and at least close to the same scale, then I wouldn't have a problem. I'd be even more apt to be cool with it if it's a creative substitute. If it was obviously just a half-assed way to get away with not buying as much stuff, then I'd be disappointed.

[Tsear]

If it's clear what's what and they look good, then it's fine by me. I've seen a lot of cool alternate treemen.

[MetalStorm4786]

Back when I first heard about Warhammer maybe 10 years ago, there was only one thing stopping me from getting into the hobby, money. Think twice next time you're about to rag on someone for proxies, scratch built stuff or alternative models. Telling someone who can't afford to buy the models to play the game that you won't play with them may turn them off to it completely. And not everyone has hours upon hours to convert stuff either.

Not everyone HAS to the time and money to invest in this hobby. Who want's to invest that much into a hobby they aren't even sure they will like? Warhammer isn't the type of thing that you play once and decide if you like it or not. Offer help to players who have "unacceptable" conversions. Maybe what they brought to the table is the best they can do, and feel really bad when you crap all over thier army. As long as someone puts in 50%, I'm fine. Buy the models and use em unpainted for all I care. Make your own models as long as they resemble what they are supposed to be. Or do a little of both. I'm stopping here because I could on about this forever.

The economy sucks right now, if it's at your LGS, just let it go.

[timbo101]

This is a game, and IMHO if people have put time and effort in and are having a good time playing then ultimatly what does it matter what has been fielded? - This whole hobby is about enjoying yourself and nothing else.

Don't GW themselves say that the game is just a starter for your imagination to run wild. The big caviate is that everyone's got to understand exactly what's what. With friends that's not hard, but with strangers facing off over the table I can understand that this could break-down fast without some standards.

As to that paper titan. OK it didn't look the best, but so long as it had a properly agreed data sheet i would not have a problem playing it. Not everyone can afford a spanking Forge world model, or have the skills to scratch build something to a high standard. Cutting off stuff because they do not meet you stadards IMHO is very narrow minded.

[zaphod_zarniwoop]

The thing to remember is everybody needs to start somewhere. If some kid is using a bunch of proxies to play a few games to help him decide whether he likes the game and wants to buy the actual models at some point, don't give them a hard time for it.

Some people have less time and/or money to spend on the game as well; they might not have their army fully painted or have all the models they want - yet. If they are saving for them, and painting the stuff they have whenever they find time, should they be exiled from the playing table for that?

Of course, if someone knows the rules in and out and just uses proxies of the most powerful units to pownzor everyone, then I would object. If someone is lazy and has no intention of painting their minis to any appreciable level, that ticks me off too. I do prefer my enemies to have a cool-looking army. They don't all need to be compliant with tournament rules as long as we're playing a friendly game though.

Quite some people seem to have issues with non-GW bits/models being used. If you're at a tournament, I'd say abide by their rules. Same goes for game stores, though I'd expect them to be a bit more lenient; have enthusiastic players in your store seems to me to be a good way of promoting the game, even if they use a few bits and bobs from other manufacturers. It lets people see it's not just about spending piles of money on the same models everyone else has, but that there's room for creativity as well (and I don't mean just picking a different color scheme).

I personally prefer heavily converted models, with bits from other minis games or old toys or whatever. As long as they're mounted on standard bases and have appropriate WYSIWYG weapons, very little bothers me.

[steeldragon]

It took like three days to read all the posts...

I truly have no problem with cool modified, properly based models, WYSIWYG. I don't care if they are GW or not. Daemons, IG and Inquisitor stuff is easier to fit models from other ranges.

Space Marines, Eldars and Tau are a little more complicated, as long as it's properly based, and not confusing I don't care if they are using a full Kryomek Aliens army instead of Tyranids to represent some lost Hive Fleet.

I do like to tinker with models, plasticard is fantastic and I do feel conversions are a great part of the hobby... denying them is like going 'you can only play with GW models on GW terrain' route, if you find that statement absurd, please apply them to miniatures too, current GW marketing is only convincing us that GW terrain is better, not the only possibility.

If someone told me I can't use this chaos lord I sculpted (only the backpack is GW... what % that is?) I will not bother to unpack the rest of the army:

[url]http://bit.ly/quZII[/url]

My only issue, and it's a big issue (for me at least) are the argentinian recasts... I live in Chile and in the neighbor country (imagine Canada if you live in the US) and there were a whole industry of recasts of GW stuff, the copies were very good, painted they will look exactly the same, the only way to notice some of them were the bases, but if you used GW bases there was a very high possibility to not notice the recast. THAT is illegal, wrong, etc, etc... they sold them for a tenth of the GW price, making viable SoB armies, for example. The production was big enough to flood the local scene. That is cheating the system, profiting from someone else's work and it's wrong...

Andres

[Duke]

though I agree 100% with the whole not copying and selling GW models I would like to play devils advocate.

In the US we have anti trust laws (Monopoly). Currently GW has a complete monopoly on the market of 40k models. Not only that but they don't allow others to use their ideas when casting your own models. (For example, if I casted a Space Marine I couldn't call it a Space marine I would have to call it a Space Spartan)
At what point is GW the criminal for preventing competition and hijacking the free market?

Duke

PS- Please remember that I am playing devils advocate in the above post.

[crazyredpraetorian]

GW has a copyright on 40K and all of their other products. Therefore, they have the right to prevent trademark infringement. That is not a monopoly. If they were preventing other companies from making any miniature games, they would have a monopoly and be open to anti-trust investigation.

[Duke]

Im not so much talking about monopoly in the entire miniatures gaming arena. Im talking about production of miniatures for the system of 40k. It almost feels like Windows and the PC. Sure you could have a different computer, but good luck trying to get a different OS.


Duke

[steeldragon]

So basically you want to make a Star Wars movie without paying any rights to Lucas, claiming that Lucas is holding a monopoly on the Star Wars universe ¬¬

You could do other movies, you know, just not Star Wars.

Andres