Mark V Armour

[Haighus]

To be totally fair to them I think the problem started when they put Marine in what was to become known as MKVII (they hadn't named the armour types at this point) on the cover art of First Ed Space Marine.

Attachment 16980

And they've being trying to paper over it since.

To be fair, MkVII is introduced before the end of the Heresy by the loyalist forces, when they evacuate armour researchers from Mars and continue development, so that picture could still be accurate if it is set very late in the Heresy. The helmet of the Marine in the foreground is a MkVII helmet not a MkV helmet (due to the exposed cabling of the respirator) so there isn't really any other explanation for it.

I would have liked it if they'd taken the opportunity to make the models to fit with the current (which has been around quite a while) background to it after all they'd only ever made one of the WD 129 MKVs as it were.

I probably fit into the same category at the Forge World chappie Alaric mentions.

The White Dwarf article actually says that MkV suits were newly produced, and that the old parts used were components such as cabling, not entire sections of armour, like legs or arms. It says the armour plating itself was produced by the Techmarine artificers using whatever they had to hand and reinforced with the bonding studs, so it never described as just being a mismatch of different armour patterns, but more as a rough and ready group of similar designs using whatever components they could easily produce or were readily available but with improvised armour plating over the top.

[Arkhan Land]

Haig and Grimm

for whatever reason in all of the entries I have on mk II and III it says it was harder to repair, maybe more useful as a point in terms of plots than actual real life physics. maybe at the times in RT and 2nd/3rd they just decided the "Archaic" nature of it appealed to the fluff at the time. though granted at this point there were like two or three decent metal models for that jam I dont think they ever anticipated them being for anything more than hobbyists seeking to illustrate the history of 40k. I have a few of these guys sort of just in the general population of my space marines.

as a thought on the heresey model armour thing versus real one, at the time they started to expand that fluff is when they released a bunch of of the torso only versions of a few alternate armour marks, Ide really have to scour my codexes and Stuff Of Legends to figure out which, perhaps at the time GW was trying to explain what would only naturally be a variety of arms being used with these jams, keep in mind this is a super far out weird guess/thought/idea

[Haighus]

Haig and Grimm

for whatever reason in all of the entries I have on mk II and III it says it was harder to repair, maybe more useful as a point in terms of plots than actual real life physics. maybe at the times in RT and 2nd/3rd they just decided the "Archaic" nature of it appealed to the fluff at the time. though granted at this point there were like two or three decent metal models for that jam I dont think they ever anticipated them being for anything more than hobbyists seeking to illustrate the history of 40k. I have a few of these guys sort of just in the general population of my space marines.

as a thought on the heresey model armour thing versus real one, at the time they started to expand that fluff is when they released a bunch of of the torso only versions of a few alternate armour marks, Ide really have to scour my codexes and Stuff Of Legends to figure out which, perhaps at the time GW was trying to explain what would only naturally be a variety of arms being used with these jams, keep in mind this is a super far out weird guess/thought/idea

I agreed with you I thought the MkII was like the hard-to-repair German track system, and the MkIV was much more modular and easy to swap out.

[grimmas]

I agreed with you I thought the MkII was like the hard-to-repair German track system, and the MkIV was much more modular and easy to swap out.

Something I would also agree with. But that's the issue in the current background they don't have those modular parts as they need to be centrally manufactured and the Heresy has buggered their supply line. So they needed use the more accessible tech of the early suits to make do and mend which results in the MKV suits. Which gets to my original gripe which is the models don't represent it they visually have more in common with the later MKVI armour rather than the earlier stuff they were made from.

[Haighus]

They don't share the same armour plating as the earlier Mks though- the armour plating is improvised plate over the components (such as the power cabling) shared with earlier Mks. The Legion artificers have basically welded a load of crappy armour over the exoskeleton and reinforced it with the studs- there isn't really any need for it to resemble the earlier Mks in terms of shape- the visual commonalities IMO come mainly from the bulkier look of MkV and the more brutal, rough appearance of it and it's components. I feel there should be more variety in the MkV pack to represent the less standardised design of the 'mark', in particular with the respirators, but the general feel of the armour fits with its background. It isn't just MkII and III combined into one suit, it is MkII and III components such as the power cabling and autosenses jury-rigged into the most easy to produce effective armour the Legion artificers can get away with, with as many scavenged MkIV components as possible if they are available.

In essence, what the White Dwarf article above is trying to say, and what is not contradicted by later fluff, is that the Legions were trying to make MkIV with MkII/III spare parts and whatever they could get their hands on. So it should look more like MkIV than MkII/III, because that is the goal the Legions are trying to emulate.

[grimmas]

I'm like your reasoning there. The Models just feel like they were trying emulate MKVII plate rather than MKIV plate and they are too uniform. they look like cobbled together MKVIIs rather than MKIV

I'd also add that the old white dwarf is a bit contradicted in that it does have MKV as being a distinct design of armour that uses the old parts to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture than MKIV rather than being MKIV suits using old parts to keep them going as they are currently


Top discussion folks I really enjoyed it. Thank you

[Haighus]

I'm like your reasoning there. The Models just feel like they were trying emulate MKVII plate rather than MKIV plate and they are too uniform. they look like cobbled together MKVIIs rather than MKIV

I would agree with that- they've clearly tried to make a 'missing link' Mk between the two, and it should have a few more visual commonalities with MkIV I think.

I'd also add that the old white dwarf is a bit contradicted in that it does have MKV as being a distinct design of armour that uses the old parts to make it cheaper and easier to manufacture than MKIV rather than being MKIV suits using old parts to keep them going as they are currently

It sort of has them as both- it's less a mark than a sort of grouped collection of similar scratch-built armours with similar characteristics due to expediency.

Top discussion folks I really enjoyed it. Thank you

Likewise. Glad it dredged that cool White Dwarf up too, that was an interesting read.

[OzDestro]

Hey there,
interesting conversation, but I think we need to acknowledge that the lore around MK V has changed in recent (and not do recent) times.

When Adeptus Titanicus and Space Marine were introduced in the late 80s and they started looking at the Horus Heresy, the MK V (at the time my favourite armour) was explained as armour that COULD have other armour integrated with it when certain pieces of amour were short or couldn't be replaced.
You could then add a MK III greaves or a MK II to MK V armour and it be fully operational for example.

There was a heirarchy at the time of what Marks could be used with other marks (MKIV for example couldn't be used with anything else as it was a special Mark that ended up being too hard to mass produce) - not sure if this is still the way.

There were, therefore, whole suits of MK V deployed and they can be seen in a lot of the art from that time representing the Marines during the Heresy - thus Heresy Armour.

The idea that it's hobbled together seems to be a new thing and a bit silly in my mind.
Why give it a Mark number at all if it's not standard?
The old lore explains why - it was a full Mark that could use other bits giving it variety, but there could also be whole suits.

Hope this helps in the discussion.