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  1. #1

    Default A Good, Educational Read:

    I think this article sums a lot of things up by someone with no internal (i.e. Player or Employee) bias:

    http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/ri...evenue-problem

  2. #2

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    Good find. Interesting read and more believable than the last one I read elsewhere. Got a chuckle out of the "no discounts for shareholders"

  3. #3

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    lols and it still boils down to what all the arguments on here end up as - no one has any idea, though its interesting the "experts" have that opinion too though.

    However the process of robo-insemination is far too complex for the human mind!
    A knee high fence, my one weakness

  4. #4

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    He's had followups. The shareholder meeting referenced there is the one in which he noted the attitude of looking down on games and saying "we don't make toys" (except, well, they DO make toys, which is something they used to remember). It was a depressing read. Over times as he's looked more and more into GW's reports, he's been less convinced, culminating in the latest:

    http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/ri...shop%3A-denial

    That's not an uplifting article, and it's difficult for the hardliners to claim this guy has no clue what he's talking about (won't stop them trying) or that he has some kind of agenda (which is funny, because he's a shareholder, so if he's doing something to try to hurt the company, he's hurting himself in the process).

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Setzer View Post
    He's had followups. The shareholder meeting referenced there is the one in which he noted the attitude of looking down on games and saying "we don't make toys" (except, well, they DO make toys, which is something they used to remember). It was a depressing read. Over times as he's looked more and more into GW's reports, he's been less convinced, culminating in the latest:

    http://www.iii.co.uk/news-opinion/ri...shop%3A-denial

    That's not an uplifting article, and it's difficult for the hardliners to claim this guy has no clue what he's talking about (won't stop them trying) or that he has some kind of agenda (which is funny, because he's a shareholder, so if he's doing something to try to hurt the company, he's hurting himself in the process).
    I was going to wait a few days to post that one, to give people time to comment on (or spin) the first one. But since you already put it out there, we might as well get down to the nitty gritty and discuss the follow up article. He knows exactly what he is talking about. The key thing is that Games Workshop is to blame for its own misfortune. It was their game to win or lose. The competition to them now exists in strength (and growing) because of the niche they left. Paper cuts; they are dying by self inflicted paper cuts. It is a slow, silly way to go. Fortunately for Games Workshop, they still have the means to turn things around. The only question is whether or not they will have the stones to get rid of their Board.

  6. #6

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    Beddard sounds like an objective fan. He wants GW to be better and get the board moving in the right direction .

    Very telling is the quote
    [Rowntree]In my opinion the greatest risk is the same one that we repeat each year, namely, management. So long as we have great people we will be fine. Problems will arise if the board allows egos and private agendas to rule. I will do my utmost to ensure that this does not happen on my watch.[/quote]

    Which I think is very near the mark and from my awareness of GW HQ movements. I hope things are different, but I think Kirby has started believing his spin for too long.
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  7. #7

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    I know people think I'm just a GW basher, but I try to approach my view of them objectively, and as an "investor" in my own ways I'd rather they stick around. It's why I get so upset about their moves (and also I can recognize better how bad some of them are from a professional viewpoint). Well, also, I'm a bit too passionate about anything I get involved in. But yeah, I want them to get smart, wise up, and realize they could be the "big dog," but right now they're fading, and if they don't watch out, they'll lose the top billing that they're trying to show off so much.

    On the other hand, while I hope GW wises up and gets back in the right direction, I like the competition. I think competition helps everyone, and having more options for gamers is good. One of the problems with the hobby in general when GW *was* making the smart moves is that GW darned near created a monopoly. Other games that came along like Warzone, Chronopia, Confrontation, etc. got chewed up and tossed aside. Warmachine/Hordes is the only one that stuck around, and without anyone but GW to go against, they started following some of GW's worst tendencies, like with pricing. (Though they can at least try to use the excuse of more expensive materials... bit of a cop out, but they can try.) Now we have Warlord, Mantic, even FFG (in its own way), getting heavily into the game. Mantic's not as big as the others yet, but they're making enough moves they'll stick around and grow. Warlord's going well, branching out a bit. The really amusing thing with those two companies is they have a lot of talent from GW's rise to the top.

    The "best" thing that could happen is a year of sales dropping so hard that profit either disappears or drops to almost nothing, something harsh enough to force a change of direction. Sometimes a company needs a jolt to wake up.

  8. #8

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    Got this from Facebook as Tuomas Pirinen posted the same article on his profile.

    From Rick Priestley:
    I know Mike Sadly I think the days when the games themselves actually meant anything to GW are well and truly over - they are having a bit of a panic at the moment and revisiting the idea of making games - well revisiting old games at any rate - but their driver is the search for a viable commercial model rather than a passion for games and gaming. I don't think there's much of that goes on! Oh well!
    When somebody told him GW need him back:

    There is not enough money in the world... !
    Tuomas Pirinen (when talking about the rise in profits in the "golden years")
    And Rick was the most instrumental person and the secret sauce behind this huge success. And I will stand behind this statement against any man or woman who says otherwise.
    Tuomas Pirinen
    I do think GTs and Outriders were a massive part of the long-term success.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfshade View Post
    Beddard sounds like an objective fan. He wants GW to be better and get the board moving in the right direction .

    Very telling is the quote
    [Rowntree]In my opinion the greatest risk is the same one that we repeat each year, namely, management. So long as we have great people we will be fine. Problems will arise if the board allows egos and private agendas to rule. I will do my utmost to ensure that this does not happen on my watch.
    Which I think is very near the mark and from my awareness of GW HQ movements. I hope things are different, but I think Kirby has started believing his spin for too long.[/QUOTE]

    I came up with the same view. Well said, better than I coulda put into words lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Setzer View Post
    I know people think I'm just a GW basher, but I try to approach my view of them objectively, and as an "investor" in my own ways I'd rather they stick around. It's why I get so upset about their moves (and also I can recognize better how bad some of them are from a professional viewpoint). Well, also, I'm a bit too passionate about anything I get involved in. But yeah, I want them to get smart, wise up, and realize they could be the "big dog," but right now they're fading, and if they don't watch out, they'll lose the top billing that they're trying to show off so much.

    On the other hand, while I hope GW wises up and gets back in the right direction, I like the competition. I think competition helps everyone, and having more options for gamers is good. One of the problems with the hobby in general when GW *was* making the smart moves is that GW darned near created a monopoly. Other games that came along like Warzone, Chronopia, Confrontation, etc. got chewed up and tossed aside. Warmachine/Hordes is the only one that stuck around, and without anyone but GW to go against, they started following some of GW's worst tendencies, like with pricing. (Though they can at least try to use the excuse of more expensive materials... bit of a cop out, but they can try.) Now we have Warlord, Mantic, even FFG (in its own way), getting heavily into the game. Mantic's not as big as the others yet, but they're making enough moves they'll stick around and grow. Warlord's going well, branching out a bit. The really amusing thing with those two companies is they have a lot of talent from GW's rise to the top.

    The "best" thing that could happen is a year of sales dropping so hard that profit either disappears or drops to almost nothing, something harsh enough to force a change of direction. Sometimes a company needs a jolt to wake up.
    Member waaaaay back in our first sparring match on zee frontpage? No? Me neither :P but I have a hazy recollection and it's nice to see how much you have changed and I agree with you this time. I maintain my view back then, same as now: GW will not learn until they lose significant amounts of money, which STILL hasn't happened. One day tho...maybe one day they will get their poop in a group and turn it around...just need that one catastrophic year...

    More expensive materials isn't a cop out, I deal with em every day (not resin but raw materials) and they never ever bloody well go down in price, always up. They used to blame the oil companies and now...oil is low...and no backing off of the price, still the same. Jerkfaces.

  10. #10

    Default

    My view is the same it has been for the last four years. Games Workshop has lost its way. It started as a company that makes GAMES. It is right there in the name. They were partnered with another company that made models. They took Citadel in and started making the models themselves. While there will always be a percentage of their customers who do buy merely because they enjoy modeling, the only real growth potential is in those who play the game. There will always be more gamers than pure hobby fanatics. In fact the numbers of those who play the game as their primary motivation probably doubles or triples (or more) the other side. Then there are those that do both.

    From a marketing standpoint, they needed clean, balanced rules. A solid rule set serves both the purely competitive gamers and the casual gamer. In short, those who enjoy games want one where their input matters. Those who don't care about the game's outcome aren't affected one way or the other by having balance. It is thus, the only logical choice, to do the balanced system which doesn't lose you any customers. Games Workshop did the opposite. They have been systematically making their games worse. They are reaping exactly what they have sown. They want to define themselves not as a game company anymore. It is delusional, but that is what they want to do.

 

 
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