Respect and Proxies

[Just Tony]

I think anyone who objects to an even half-decent Kitbash wants their bumps felt.

It's been a part of the hobby since it began, and remains so today.

Again, as long as you're not taking the mick with ridiculous 'modelled for advantage' nonsense, what's the difference?

Sometimes it goes too far. Anyone remember Joe Orteza's greenstuff Chaos army? Literally NOTHING in that army could have been discerned as anything close to what it was supposed to represent. THAT sort of scratchbuilding I am against. I also saw a Lego Land Speeder. Yeah.

And with 'closest casualty' WYSIWYG is even more important.

For those who played, consider 7th Ed and backwards Warhammer. Just how many times was the Wizard you just jobbed also, conveniently the one that had used up all their Dispel Scrolls?

Got to know what I'm shooting at at the best of times, doubly so when is closest casualty rules.

Was my club the only club where you wrote that sort of thing down? Kinda like spells, write it on your list so it isn't in dispute.

[Mr Mystery]

Lego - if it's the right size and looks about right, I'd be ok.

Greenstuff one? Haven't seen that - I'll have a google

And yes. It looks like it was the only club

[Charon]

Was my club the only club where you wrote that sort of thing down? Kinda like spells, write it on your list so it isn't in dispute.

No, you club was not the only one. It is common sense to write this stuff down (or cross it off the list in case of one use items) just like it is common sense to mark remaining hitpoints.

[Erik Setzer]

Ooooh... I just remembered one of my favorite items I did for my dad's Nurgle army. We found these action figures at Wal-Mart, $1 each, kind of cheap figures, but they had some interesting bits in them, i.e. wings that could be used for daemons, Egyptian style banners, etc. Well, some of them had bony dragon-like creatures (ah, right, that's where the wings came from!), and I added some green stuff to represent rotten skill falling off, and painted them up properly. Boom, Chaos Spawn.

It was at least a decade ago, and I'd never claim to be the best skilled, but I like how they turned out. Can't find the photos at the moment, but I'm sure I have some, somewhere. I'll post them if I find them.

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

speaking personally, counts-as is the ONLY way I can do my minor xenos races and such. Perhaps if GW or FW actually produced some of them I wouldnt have to convert or sculpt...

[Terry McAllister]

Personally, I don't mind proxies. I use proxies myself, but only when I want to try out new units or tactics but don't necessarily want to go out and spend £100+ on models to test. If I like the units or the tactics, then I will make the investment in the models..
So far this has been fine within my group of friends who I play with regularly so I don't see a reason to change.
I can understand not accepting proxies in a competitive environment though, other than that, no problem for me.

[Charistoph]

Sometimes it goes too far. Anyone remember Joe Orteza's greenstuff Chaos army? Literally NOTHING in that army could have been discerned as anything close to what it was supposed to represent. THAT sort of scratchbuilding I am against. I also saw a Lego Land Speeder. Yeah.

Beats the coke bottle Drop Pod that gets moved around a little at a time whenever someone takes a drink!

My favorite in terms of comedy was someone who took pipe cleaners and bent them in to the shape of B, D, L, and O, and put them on bases for his "[URL="http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/507727-Blood%20Letters%201.html"]Blood Letters[/URL]", complete with googly eyes! While a great finger to the GW kit prices, I give props for being imaginative.

[Sonikgav]

Back in the day the rule was 50% of the model had to be GW Parts. Doesnt need to be what the model was intended to be, as long as it was built from GW kits they didnt care.

I think the crux of this argument though was that the poster on the FB thread was basically saying he felt personally insulted, if someone hadn't invested as much in their army financially. Even to the point he stated its not just proxies, but also older, out of date and damaged models still being fielded instead of being replaced.

[son_of_volmer]

Right, I forgot the part about being 'personally insulted'.

Can we agree that there is a point where a proxy becomes unacceptable in a game of 40k between strangers?

I feel proxies verge on being unacceptable when they are converted from a toys with no consideration for the scale, style and detail of the 40k miniatures their opponent is likely to field.

I love pewter models, I love old models, I love free models. I live in a part of Japan where the closest thing to 40k I can find is a box of 3rd edition plastic Marines buried under Gundam kits. There are amazing plastic model kits everywhere, but require a ton of work to bring them in line with 40k.

One of these days I’m going to make a proxy from the M61A5. I will do so knowing that whatever opponent I face off against might expect me to be fielding a GW produced Super Heavy. They may have spent a great deal of money and time on their Lord of War and done so with the expectation that they’d face an opponent who had done the same.

[Mr Mystery]

Damaged Models is a no-no for me. I've had bad experiences with that in the past, and don't wish to risk a revisit.

Other opinions are available and no more or less valid.

But yeah, there is always a tipping point - but I don't think it's one that can ever be fully defined. There's just too much subjectivity.