Deep striking combat squads

[synack]

With the introduction of Blood Angels, I think this is going to come up more often.

Combat squads allow you to break up a 10 man squad into two 5 man squads and deploy them in seperate locations. For all purposes they count as a seperate units from that point on.

Now the only exception to this is when they deploy via a drop pod. You declare before hand that you are combat squading them, but then both squads enter play via the drop pod, but when they exit the pod, they are seperate units.

Now, how does this work with units in reserve or units deep striking? My first thoughts was that you can declare the combat squading of the unit before, then deploy 1 5 man squad and then deep strike another 5 man squad. But after pondering about it, I was wondering why you wouldn't be able to do that with the drop pod then.

So my current thought is, that you can combat squad them, but you follow the Drop pod rules. You treat the unit as one. You hold them in reserve, roll once for reserves and when the unit enters play, from that point you they are treated as seperate units and can have them land in seperate locations and they scatter individually.

There is a third train of thought, that they can't combat squad at all when deep striking, but I don't think that holds true, because cause the rules state that the only exception to the rule is for drop pods.

I've read people saying that units count as deployed when the hit the table, so my idea that they both have to deep strike, but can in seperate locations with seperate scatter would be correct, but I'd really like someone to point me to a rule/faq backing this up?

Thanks/Thoughts

Syn

[Angelus Mortifer]

Roll one die for the Reserve of the whole squad. State they are Combat Squaded or not when they are DEPLOYED. Roll scatter and distance separately for each combat squad after you know they are in from Reserve - they can deploy in separate locations.

Essentially, the decision to Combat Squad from Reserve (Deep Strike or otherwise) is made as you deploy the unit, not before. Under this mechanic though, it means Combat Squads can't arrive differently from eachother, i.e. you couldn't have one arrive from normal Reserve and one Deep Strike, because you have to specify what the whole squad will do at deployment at the beginning of the game. You can, however, have two combat squads arrive at different locations from Outflank etc (on the same flank only and unit rules permitting).

It's worth noting that you only have to declare that a squad arriving by Drop Pod is combat squadding AFTER the Pod has landed and they disembark, not at deployment (p.51 C:SM - "Combat Squads").

[synack]

Thats totally the way I would play it, but I'm having a hard time finding rules to back it up

[Eusebius Rex]

Thats totally the way I would play it, but I'm having a hard time finding rules to back it up

Actually, I think you were really close in your initial post in finding the rules to back it up. P.51 of the C:SM says that the decision to combat squad is made when the unit (singular, cause it hasn't divided yet) deploys and that both combat squads can be deployed in seperate locations. So, since something in reserve is not deployed yet, the unit makes one roll for entry because it has not divided yet. Pods are an exception to this only that a podded unit can be deployed and then units disembarking can combat squad (effectively allowing 2 units to share the transport past deployment when the pod landed).

Deep Strike is just a method of deploying the reserve. There is no such thing as a Deep Strike roll to see if something enters the game - there is a reserve roll and then deep strike scatter die are the mechanic that a reserve'd unit uses to enter the game if it was called out as a deep striker.

Point being - you can combat squad a deep striking unit just like you can combat squad a unit outflanking or walking on. Deep strike is the mechanic of delivery for the reserve, but reserve is thier pre-deployment status, and once they are activated to be deployed, they can combat squad whether from deep strike, outflank, walk on, just like if they were deployed seperately initially in the game.

So, should work like this:

Pregame:
Unit was declared as a reserve via deep strike

Round 2+:
Unit is rolled to see if it can deploy from reserve

Deployment (round 2+):
upon successful reserve roll, the unit is out of reserve for deployment, declared entry as combat squads and then deep strike'd.

Shooting phase:
two Chimera's die when they are melta'd from 2 different 5x man combat squads

[Culven]

It's worth noting that you only have to declare that a squad arriving by Drop Pod is combat squadding AFTER the Pod has landed and they disembark, not at deployment (p.51 C:SM - "Combat Squads").

When the Drop Pod enters play and teh unit Disembarks, that is when the Unit is Deployed, which is why they can split.

[Lord Azaghul]

I've heard people say you can't combat squad in DOW and I'm been trying to figure out why?

I'm not sure if this is because 'deployment' is only pre-game, or if each unit arriving from reserves counts as 'deployment' when it shows up? Thoughts?

[Culven]

I've heard people say you can't combat squad in DOW and I'm been trying to figure out why?

I have no idea why they would say that. The only thing I think of is if they are refering to placing two Troops squads and then splitting them since that would exceed the 2 Troops Units limit.

[Tynskel]

You guys are doing it wrong.

You declare Combat Squad at deployment, EXCEPT for Drop Pods.

Example:
I am declaring my assault squad is going to Combat Squad and Deep Strike- That's their deployment. Now you have 2 separate squads, and you make a roll for each one.

I am declaring combat squads for my assault squad, 1 will start on the board, the other in reserve.

I am declaring combat squads for my assault squad, 1 will start on the board, the other will deep strike.

I am declaring combat squads for my Scouts- one will start on the board according to the rules of Infiltrate, the other will be mounted in the Land Speeder Storm. The Storm is deploying by Outflank.

I am declaring Combat Squads for my Terminators. One squad will be mounted in their dedicated transport: Land Raider, and the other squad will Teleport Deep Strike. The Land Raider will start on the board.

ect. ect. ect.

The ONLY time you make one reserve roll for a squad, THEN combat squad later, is for the Drop Pod.

Ex:
I deploy my Tactical Squad inside the Drop Pod. (I did NOT announce my intention to Combat Squad.) I roll 1 reserves roll, the Drop Pod comes in- after Scattering has been completed, the doors open, squad disembarks. I now declare Combat Squads.


Lastly: Dawn of War deployment

You declare Combat squads, Place 5 Marines in the Dedicated Transport on the board (2 units), keep the other 5 off the board.
You declare ALL of the deployments of squads before placing models on the board: Outflank, Combat Squads, Infiltrate, Deep Strike, Reserves, and Dawn of War specialty placement.

[hisdudeness]

I believe Angelus Mortifer has it correct. We can not combat squad a unit and they enter with different mechanics. I thought this was wrong also until I re-read the sections again.

Tynskel, I believe you partialy correct, combat squading is triggered by deployment. But, to deep stike the unit must be in reserve, and as below, we do not deploy into reserves. Your next 2 examples are incorrect, to delare combat squads you must deploy. The next example, IMO, not possible either. The scout have already deployed and thus one squad cannot 'undeploy' and go to reserves.

Your DOW example is incorrect.


We do not deploy into reserves, they are placed in reserves. Here is why.

Look at the first line under Preparing reserves (p94, BRB): “When deploying their army, players may choose NOT to deploy one or more units…”.

And the combat squad rules state (p51, C:SM): “The decision to split…,must be made when the unit is DEPLOYED.”

And Rolling for Reserves section second paragraph (p94, BRB) “Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the arriving units and DEPLOYS it,…”

And further, for Deep Strike (p95, BRB) first paragraph: “Roll for arrival of these units as specified in the rules for reserves and then DEPLOY them as follows.”

[Culven]

As his(royal?)dudeness said, units placed in Reserves have not yet been Deployed, thus the unit has not had the opportunity to use the Combat Squad rule. So, no splitting a unit with one Combat Squad in Reserves and another Deployed. "Deploying" is the act of placing a unit into play, either before the game during "Deploy Forces" or during the game when the unit enters play from Reserves.