Deep striking combat squads

[Tynskel]

p. 94
During Deployment, when declaring which units are left in reserve, the player must clearly explain the organization of his reserves to the opponent.

This means: declare what all of your units are doing-- If you read the entire section: the units in reserve DO NOT DEPLOY, they MOVE. There is a difference.

This makes complete sense that you would have Terminators embarked in a Land Raider, with the other combat squad ready to Teleport to reinforce the rest of the Terminators.

Scout Squads would want to encircle and Trap enemy units: Hence one combat squad of Snipers is deployed onto the board, while the combat squad deep strikes/outflanks by Land Speeder Storm.

The act of announcing your reserves is declaring their type of Deployment.

[hisdudeness]

I agree, you must declare which units are doing what and in what manner. This declaration being which units are deployed on table and which are held in reserve. This is differrent than deploying, as the rules I quoted show.

To combat squad, the unit must deploy (a key word). If you deploy the termie squad they go to the table (entire unit). So we may combat squad the termie unit. 5 of them can then be deployed in a transport, but the other 5 cannot 'undeploy' to go into reserves. They have already deployed or else they could not have Combat Squaded.

It does make sense to have a 2nd termie squad deep strike to help the embarked squad. But to this in game, you must have 2 squads bought with seperate FOC slots. This is the limitation of combat squading.

Quote me a rule that says going to reserves is deploying. If the line would have been, "When deploying in reserves.." or something to that effect I would give it to you. I quoted you one that clearly states reserves are not deployment. But it is done during deployment 'phase'. Which tells us when we declare reserves, not that reserves are a form of deployment.

As I said, I thought going to reserves was a deployment, but this is not the case.

[EnglishInquisition]

I'm with Tynskel on this one.
The advantage of the drop pod IS the ability to combat squad as they disembark, thus allowing the most tactical flexibility for the Marine squads. Every other combat squad split is done pre-game.

[Tynskel]

Oi!

p. 86
1 Agree Points
2 Prepare Battlefield
3 Select Mission
::4 DEPLOY FORCES::
5 Start the game
You don't deploy forces after the game begins--- when you read the specifics of p. 94, the units move onto the board- not deploy.

under 4: Deploy Forces is where Declare Combat Squads. p. 94 has the descriptor that every for unit NOT on the board, the player must explain the organization of such unit. Hence, combat squads, ect. Once one combat squads a unit, they remain two separate units for the rest of the game. That means, for example, 2 distinct reserve rolls for an Assault Squad that has combat squads and reserved all the 'new' units.

Drop Pod has the exception--- the only case where you do not have to declare combat squads during deployment- specifically, you declare combat squads when disembarking the Drop Pod. This gives the player a significant advantage: The opponent does not know if they are facing one or two units!

By having to declare all organization before the game begins, there are no 'dirty' tricks.

Another example: Imperial Guard Codex. p.37 'Combined Squad'.

If you did the 'declaring' when they enter the board, you have to make 5 Successful reserve rolls to bring the 5 Infantry Squads on as one unit. That's redonkulous, and defeats the purpose of 'Combined Squad'

This is how deployment works: you declare that the 5 squads are forming a single unit, that will be held in reserves (as per the rules on p.94 Main rulebook). Then the game begins- then on turn 2+ you roll for your reserve.

[hisdudeness]

I disagree; the advantage of drop poding is a safer ride dirt side. The combat squad part is a clarification to a possible gray area in the combat squad rules.

Deep striking is a form of deployment and as such the squad could combat squad when it disembarks the pod. Even a squad of termies could deep strike and combat squad as they teleport in.

[Tynskel]

Read the entire game setup section. you are parsing up the section too much.

Deployment is section 4. Once completed, game begins.

You run into all sorts of Dumb Problems if you do not allow separation during 4: DEPLOY.

Your Razorback can no longer carry men!

Your Land Raider Dedicated Transport arrives--- EMPTY???

Combat Squads is declared when you make the decision, before the game begins, how to 'organize' your forces.

[hisdudeness]

As I said this a note on timing, not that being held in reserves equals deployment. We can use psychic powers in the movement phase, but that does not make the use of the power movement does it? You are incorrect, we only declare combat squads when the unit deploys.

Yes all kinds of ‘problems’ happen when we follow RAW. Your examples are flawed; both the razorback and LR can have embarked units, just not a unit that has more members than its transport limit. This is no different than normal.

Your IG example is also flawed as the Infantry platoon rules (p96, C:IG) tell us what to do: each platoon counts as one FOC slot and rolled as one unit for reserves. And since an infantry squad is part of an infantry platoon (and can only be bought as part of an infantry platoon) we follow the infantry platoon rules.

Neither of these examples counters my claim that being held in reserves is not considered deploying.

[Culven]

Another example: Imperial Guard Codex. p.37 'Combined Squad'.
If you did the 'declaring' when they enter the board, you have to make 5 Successful reserve rolls to bring the 5 Infantry Squads on as one unit.

I would like to point out that the Infantry Squads get around this issue anyway throught the Infantry Platoon rules which state a single Reserve roll is made.

Regarding page 86, it includes "Deploy Forces" in the list, which is a step of playing, but it doesn't mean that all units are considered Deployed just because the player did something with them. Per the Deploy Forces rules, a unit can be Deployed or placed in Reserves (or neither in DoW). Per the Reserves rules, , refer to page 94, "Preparing reserves", first paragraph, first sentence, ". . . players may choose not to deploy one or more units . . . instead leave them in reserve." So, units placed in Reserves are not yet Deployed. When brining in Reserves, if you refer to page 94, "Rolling for reserves", second paragraph, first sentence, ". . . the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it. . .", it is apparent that Units coming in from reserves are considered "Deployed". Since Units can only make use of the Combat Squads rule when Deployed (which doesn't necessarily occour during Deploy Forces, as demonstrated above) they will only be able to do so when Deployed pre-game or when they come in from Reserves. The is no option that would allow a unit to split whilst in Reserves (making two separate Reserves Rolls), nor is there an option to split a unit with part of ir Deploying and part of it not Deploying (being placed into Reserves instead).

[Tynskel]

As I said this a note on timing, not that being held in reserves equals deployment. We can use psychic powers in the movement phase, but that does not make the use of the power movement does it? You are incorrect, we only declare combat squads when the unit deploys.

Yes all kinds of ‘problems’ happen when we follow RAW. Your examples are flawed; both the razorback and LR can have embarked units, just not a unit that has more members than its transport limit. This is no different than normal.

Your IG example is also flawed as the Infantry platoon rules (p96, C:IG) tell us what to do: each platoon counts as one FOC slot and rolled as one unit for reserves. And since an infantry squad is part of an infantry platoon (and can only be bought as part of an infantry platoon) we follow the infantry platoon rules.

Neither of these examples counters my claim that being held in reserves is not considered deploying.

As I said before: You need to read the ENTIRE section on playing a game.

You are incorrect: The infantry platoon is one Force Org Chart, BUT every unit deploys separately according to p. 92.

The Act of using reserves is 'Deploying'. You ONLY decide what will be reserved during Section 4: Deploy Forces.

If you do not read individual sentences, the ONLY sentences that support your argument, you'll find out that Deployment happens AFTER Mission Selection, BEFORE game begins. You are picking and choosing phrases--- that is an incorrect use of quotations. Quotations need context, and the entire context includes the whole process on p. 86.

Even the individual missions describe that you DEPLOY everything during the deployment, BEFORE the game begins.

Combat Squads occurs during Section 4: Deploy Forces.

Drop Pod Combat Squads is the EXCEPTION to Section 4: Deploy Forces.

No matter how you cut the whole pie from edge to edge once, you end up with two pieces.

[lobster-overlord]

Just a quick interjection, as I have no opinion yet on this rule, but is there a WD with a battle report that can show how it can be done to support Tynskel's way (A GW use of the rules)? One would think these are possible, but I've only ever seen it done as hisdudeness is saying, with the unit as a whole until actual "deployment" and not by DEPLOY section.

John M>