Flyers - The great disappointment?

[Mr Mystery]

How do?

Currently listening to 'Death or Glory' by Iron Maiden, because it's ace.

And it's got me thinking about the unit type I find to be the most 'meh' in modern 40k. It used to be Bikes (only speaking for myself), but now it's most definitely flyers.

I don't mean the models, I really like those. I don't mean how tough the game can be if your opponent has gone airborne and your army has ridiculous few/no AA weapons in their Codex, as that's entirely situational.

No, I mean how they work on the field. They just don't appeal to me. Some are dedicated interceptors. Some are dedicated ground attack. Some are in the middle. But none satisfy.

I think they just don't belong in the scale 40k is played at. The field is much too smol, limiting how their rules can work. Now don't get me wrong, the current rules are massively better than FW's original take, but still disappointingly bland.

When I think Flyers, I think of dogfights and long, fast strafing runs. 40k has neither. Instead of incredibly fast jetspacedeathwings, we've got, well, really nippy but not terribly manouverable tanks with near-laughable armour ratings for the most part (not inappropriate though. Indeed, AV12 flyers are bent for a number of reasons)

If/when we get 8th Ed 40k, I'd love to see extra complexity for Flyers - even a sort of 'side board' game where dedicated interceptors can do their best to get in the way of bombing and strafing runs, on account that's what interceptors traditionally do. Intercept. To my mind, such units should have to get through the Interceptor to get on the board, or only enter once the Interceptor has intercepted and there's nothing else to intercept. Yes, I know this is a bit much. But still.

[Mr.Pickelz]

When the rumors and confirmations of flyer rules were being discussed, this was a big argument against their inclusion in standard 40k games. The scale for flyers is better represented in Epic scale where the board is big enough to include all the turning without having the model come in one round, shoot, maybe move and shoot again, and then leave the table if he, or she, isn't shot down first. they really are just a different form of artillery(indirect weapons), while some can be used as transports.

[Grand Master Raziel]

There's a lot of abstraction that goes on in 40K. The size of the table really isn't big enough to realistically portray anything other than an urban engagement. Modern day vehicles can engage each other from a mile away. 40K games start off with its vehicles being within what in modern day engagements would be considered point-blank range.

So, if we want the vehicles in the game, and we don't want them to be able to reach every part of the table while tucked into one corner of it, then we have weapons with unrealistically short ranges.

The same logic applies with flyers. GW wanted to include them in the game, but the FW rules for them were pants. People want their models to be on the table. So, they get speed/turning rules that keep them on the table. Also, it's not unreasonable to think that aircraft in the far future can both turn more easily and fly more slowly without stalling than modern aircraft can.

[Mr Mystery]

True, but I find it stretches my suspension of disbelief.

Other opinions are just as valid of course.

[Cactus]

I agree that most flyers don't belong in this scale of 40k (also special characters but that's just my two cents) ... I think things the size of land speeders are ok, but bombas, valkyries, necron crescent rolls, storm ravens, etc. should be moving too fast to even really be present on the table.

Perhaps if they moved more like helicopters I could get behind them.

[Psychosplodge]

Drophips make sense, either landing and shooting on the way in, or moving like an overgrown speeder?
idk the current ruleset, but something supposedly like a future jetfighter should be just whipping across the table and gone.