Abaddon is going to Win (and it's all Guilliman's fault)

[Haighus]

Hehe it is true that the Phalanx is currently SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS beset by a daemonic incursion led by Bel'akor and an Iron Warriors warsmith. On the other hand, the defending forces look like typical Black Library 'under-dog heroes' so I don't fancy Chaos' chances in this, especially considering the Fists are on home turf in one of the greatest fortresses in existence. Although that is not strictly a fluff-based argument, more just looking at the way Black Library writes

I was under the impression it took a good 10,000 or so years for Abaddon to work out a way of bypassing Cadia for the 12th Black Crusade?

[Psychosplodge]

The Astartes Praeses are eighteen Space Marine Chapters whose main task is to guard the frontiers of the Eye of Terror. The brotherhood was originally founded with twenty chapters, but one has been destroyed and another declared excommunicatus traitorus.

According to Lexicanum.

My mistake. I thought it was at least a quarter including the relictors *shrugs*

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What book have I missed for this phlanx incursion?

[Brakkart]

My mistake. I thought it was at least a quarter including the relictors *shrugs*

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What book have I missed for this phlanx incursion?

Sentinels of Terra. The fluff in it is kinda terrible really but sadly canon nonetheless.

[Psychosplodge]

That'd be why i've not seen it.

[grimmas]

Oh sorry should've mentioned there might be spoilers in the title.

Yep in Sentinels of Terra it's kind of a follow up to SM battles Malodrax.

Suffice it to say Phalanx ain't going to be an issue at the moment

[Morgrim]

My mistake. I thought it was at least a quarter including the relictors *shrugs*

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What book have I missed for this phlanx incursion?

I thought the Relictors were Badab? I know a bunch of the Badab defenders fell, but that's a different warp breach.

[Psychosplodge]

I was sure they were one of the Astartes Praeses, I might be wrong though. *shrugs* its probably in the lexicanium.

[grimmas]

They were but were declared excommunicate Tratoris during the 13th Black Crusade by the Inquisition because they were using the weapons of Chaos against Chaos. Of course this isn't necessarily the case anymore as the the 13th Black Crusade has been retconed and hasn't happened yet.

[grimmas]

Good read. Good topic Grimmas.

You are obviously a military buff so I wont make this into a "thing" or anything but I dont believe you are giving chapters their due. There is something to be said aboot driven small unit tactics. If, as you predict, Abaddon goes just to kill the Emperor, then a guerrilla war may ensue in which case the chapters may come out ahead. As you stated, legion tactics Trump chapter tactics. I dont dispute that but I would add "in a protracted war" When it comes to Wars over ideals, much like nowadays, there dont seem to be large battles anymore. If the same held true in the 41St DDay I cant see the big A cruising in and laying waste and getting bled to get out. He wants to live so I doubt he would just rush in as he would need to do, I would see him getting Cadia first. Thats his foothold, like The Beaches of Normandy, and that he will win with the tactics you hilight. No argument, Cadia is his. My.. And this isn't the right word but it will suffice, problem with legion tactics ruling the day come in on the journey to terra. I dont see legion tactics being the hammer needed to break down the gates of Terra.

Its still Guillemans fault just cuz.

Again, good read and good convo. Keep em comin!

Thank you.

I think you raise a fair point. I think the Chapters would be an advantage if there is going to lots of small battles all over the place that only need the deployment of small forces to deal with. Which is generally what happens in the Imperium at the moment. It's just that I can see Abaddon utilising the Taitor Legion Warbands to increase the number of those types of battle pulling the Imperium's forces apart to deal with them before launching a hammer blow with a Legion style attack with the Black Legion.

Of course the Chapters, being pretty much independent, will be able to continue the fight regardless of the loss of Terra (igonring the problems that may be caused by the loss of the Astronomicon) much like the insurgent forces did In Afganistan after the Coalition invasion took the Taliban government out fairly quickly. However that would be after the traitors had achieved their objective of "death to the false Emperor"

[nuclearfeet]

40k end times will most definitely happen in one of these ways:

A) Big E dies finally- cue Starchild scenario(would be the most interesting outcome and set the scene for Awesome 40k)

B) Abaddon is poised to win initially but is foiled at the last minute by a deus-ex-machina(Cypher, lost primarchs, C'tan hidden under the surface of Mars, Chaos being Chaos)

C) Chaos wipes out the Imperium. Chaos stagnates and eventually dies out(boring and unlikely)

You can pretty much count the daemon primarchs out of the end-game. They're too busy with their own little corners of the warp to care.
Is Abaddon in a strategic position to win the end-game? Most definitely
Will it end with Imperium: 0 Abaddon: 1? Lol.

Let's face it- This is GW we're talking about here. They hate Chaos, and Chaos will never win if GW has anything to say about it. Don't believe me? cough*Codex: Chaos Space Marines*cough