Death Frenzy and Thunder Hammers

[Sonikgav]

So now we have all had a look at the new Wulfen i wanted to check something in regards to their Death Frenzy Rule.

Everyone ive seen seems to be assuming that unlike the FrostClaws, Thunderhammers (and the Great Axe if not charging) wouldnt benefit from this rule as they strike at I1 and cant 'die at a later step' to fight again, but it occurs to me, the rules for Death Frenzy state...

Deathfrenzy: If a model in this unit is killed it can move up and attack at the end of the current initiative step. This even applies if the model already has attacked.

...so would this mean, that if the Wulfen have attacked with their hammers, perhaps simultaneously with another I1 unit, during the I1 step, that at the end of that step they get to swing again? Infact it seems to me it would also count for Frost Claws etc if theyre killed in a Simultaneous combat with something else at I5.

[Ben_S]

I'm not clear why someone would think that Thunderhammers don't benefit from this rule (I haven't actually looked at the Wulfen rules, so I'm only going by what you say). The most obvious benefit is that, if they're killed at I4, then they get to attack before you remove the casualty. That seems like a pretty significant benefit.

And, as for your more specific question, since it explicitly says that this extra attach occurs even if they have already attacked, I don't see anything precluding it from occurring at I1 either. But perhaps I'm missing something, since it's not even clear to me why there's a question here. What's the argument for the other side?

[Sonikgav]

It's one of those things where I think people initially misread the rule and assumed it works a certain way. That way has become the standard opinion for people who haven't read the rule.

I'll be honest it only just occurred to me so wanted to just clarify it by writing it down so to speak.

[Mr Mystery]

Misunderstanding stems from TH generally lacking the option to attack twice in a round.

Lightning Claws (or whatevs they're called) go in normal order, so when mincing Guardsmen, you can mince, get jobbed, then mince again.

Thunder Hammers would, arguably, really come into their own against say, Meganobz and other units with a decent population of Unwieldy weapons. Both sides go at the same time, being I1. So you get your initial wallop in. Then before you remove casualties from those simultaneous attacks, it's Bonus Round time, and more enemies jellified.

And yes, the way it's written in the OP (I have to assume it's verbatim) a TH armed model gets Death Frenzy at the end of the Initiative step it's jobbed in, so still quite some advantage there if fighting in a real mix of I values.

EDIT.

Based on my last paragraph above, this can be particularly advantageous against a squad lead by a character with a high I value, as it means your TH effectively raise their I to that of their killer. So a squad lead by a souped up Archon etc can be in for a world of pain.

[Charistoph]

Based on my last paragraph above, this can be particularly advantageous against a squad lead by a character with a high I value, as it means your TH effectively raise their I to that of their killer. So a squad lead by a souped up Archon etc can be in for a world of pain.

They won't get double Output like if going against Hammernators or MegaKlaws, but yes, it basically would.

[Mr Mystery]

That's what the other three paragraphs cover

Still a very nasty surprise for anything that relies on its higher I or modifying that of the foe. Sure it can probably deal with a pack of Wulfen, but my word it's going to take its licks in return