Heavy stubbers.

[Haighus]

What are peoples thoughts on heavy stubbers? I personally feel they are an underused weapon in 40k forces. Imperial Guard and Inquisition can use them only as a pintle mount on vehicles, Chaos cultists can use them as a special weapon too. This is pretty much the entirety of heavy stubber use in GW publications. FW fares a little better- Death Korp of Krieg can also take them twin-linked as a heavy weapon platform, and DKoK Grenadiers can take one as a special weapon, and the Lost and the Damned list in particular has them all over the place as both a weapons team and a special weapon.

I think that the Imperial Guard codex should also have access to heavy stubbers in the same way as the Lost and the Damned list- as special or heavy weapons. The background in Black Library books and the like has heavy stubbers appearing all over the place, as they are simple to make, simple to produce ammo for and simple to maintain and operate, yet this is not borne out in the models. Fischig uses one a few times in the Eisenhorn series, for example. I would love the option for a 5pt heavy stubber weapons team, just for the fluffiness (and cheapness) of it, with more elite units such as Veterans and Company command squads (and Inquisitorial henchmen) perhaps being able to take heavy stubbers as special weapons for the same price (both heavy weapon team and special weapon heavy stubbers are 5pts in the Lost and the Damned list).

What are other peoples' thoughts on this?

[grimmas]

I agree there should be a much more available weapon. I'd say as a special weapon across the board. I think the lack of variety in Guard Regiments is a shame generally it's supposed to be a very varied organisation but this isn't really reflected that much. The Militia rules in FWs Fifth HH book are much more like it. I was hoping when they started up FW were really going to treat us with lots of conversion/upgrade sets for the guard but they seem to have been side tracked by Astartes. Still the militia rules give me hope.

I've always thought it a bit odd that Guard have heavy bolters but not multi lasers in squads as well surely as they run off power packs they would be a more suitable heavy weapon for Lasgun equipped Guards men. The same would go for Autogun equipped Guard surely the commonality with heavy Stubber would assist. Much like how quite a lot of squad level support weapons now uses the same ammunition as the basic weapons at the moment.

Regardless I also agree that a simple low tech but reliable Heavy weapon would be a popular choice.

[Haighus]

Multi-laser heavy weapons certainly would make a lot of sense- they could share their power-supply logistics with that of lascannon. I think the power packs required for multilasers are far larger than those required for lasguns though, so there wouldn't be any commonality there other than in laser weaponry maintenance and training in using the weapons (no shot leading, minimal recoil etc with lasers).

The autogun/lasgun differences mainly come down to maintenance and resupply I think. they are functionally similar in terms of damage output, but lasguns are far more reliable (look at the old Necromunda rules for evidence of that) and the lasgun power-packs can be recharged with sunlight, or by a fire (and speed charged by being dunked in a fire), whereas autogun ammo cannot be replaced with logistical resupply. So lasguns are more versatile and reliable. This isn't to say that there aren't any autogun equipped Guard regiments, I am sure there are many, but the lasgun is a superior weapon overall and easy to produce, so autogun Guard regiments are probably in the minority. Would be nice for a fluffy rules option just because though. Likewise would be cool if the unit entry fro Chaos cultists also allowed them to be equipped with lasguns or autoguns just for greater conversion possibilities. I suspect most people wouldn't care, but legally cultists cannot use lasguns.

[Arkhan Land]

back in the olden days heavy stubbers were a far more universally found weapon, but it was also a time when the Eldar still had lascannons and plasma guns so...

[Kirsten]

I'd like to see heavy stubbers as special weapons for guard squads. I was hoping for it last few books really. it could fill a role like a BAR or tommy gun, in between a lasgun and a heavy bolter for example.

[Haighus]

I'd like to see heavy stubbers as special weapons for guard squads. I was hoping for it last few books really. it could fill a role like a BAR or tommy gun, in between a lasgun and a heavy bolter for example.

...or a Bren gun, which is something I want to do on a Guard project I have in the works. Whether a weapons team or a special weapon is the question though, in the rules and models currently we have both. I think a weapons team would basically be a special weapon, but with a dude following him round carrying extra ammo as opposed to some tripod mounted thing.

Special weapon examples:


Heavy weapon team example:

[Kirsten]

exactly. way back before the 5th edition book dropped I proposed an 18" heavy stubber version as a special weapon, and the regular 36" for heavy. essentially the difference between carrying it on your own or having the tripod.

[Haighus]

If GW ever get around to re-doing the now quite out-dated Cadian and Catachan infantry squads, I seriously hope they add a heavy stubber option.

- - - Updated - - -

exactly. way back before the 5th edition book dropped I proposed an 18" heavy stubber version as a special weapon, and the regular 36" for heavy. essentially the difference between carrying it on your own or having the tripod.

Maybe the heavy stubber should be changed to 2/3 salvo?

[Kirsten]

yeah the invention of the salvo rules did open up some options

[grimmas]

I second this Salvo is the way to go.

Haighus I'd agree Lasguns are the superior weapon to autoguns. When I mentioned the Stubbers reliability it was in comparison to heavy bolters which like all bolt weapons seem to be a bit more complicated.