Heavy stubbers.

[Charon]

What are peoples thoughts on heavy stubbers? I personally feel they are an underused weapon in 40k forces.

Heavy stubbers are underused because there is no reason to pick them over a heavy bolter. Same point costs, lower S, no AP and still "heavy".
Most armies that have access to heavy stubbers can also pick heavy bolters or autocannons.

[Haighus]

Yeah, IIRC, bolters were a 6+ on the reliability roll-thingy in Necromunda. Auto and stub weapons were a 4+ and lasguns a 2+.

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Heavy stubbers are underused because there is no reason to pick them over a heavy bolter. Same point costs, lower S, no AP and still "heavy".
Most armies that have access to heavy stubbers can also pick heavy bolters or autocannons.

They are half the price of a heavy bolter for almost all the armies that can take them. Heavy bolters and autocannons are 10pts, heavy stubbers are 5. The exception to this is on the DKoK Grenadiers, which stupidly pay 10pts, which is the same as the twin-linked heavy weapons team version in the same list.

Either way, the premise of my post was underused by GW when writing Codices, as they are rarely an option, as opposed to underused when they are an option. If they were a 5pt special weapon for Guard, I can see them being used a fair bit, as camping Guardsmen units, and Veterans especially would be able to put a significant number of shots down-field at a good range.

[Charon]

If they were a 5pt special weapon for Guard, I can see them being used a fair bit, as camping Guardsmen units, and Veterans especially would be able to put a significant number of shots down-field at a good range.

The Heavy Stubber (like the Autogun) is considered a low tech "common" weapon, while Lasguns, Heavy Bolter,... are military grade. We will only see more heavy stubbers in "cultist" style codices like Genestealer cult, probably even underfunded PDF or various chaos or armed imperial cults (civillians or militia).
Despite beeing on the lower spectrum of stats, the Imperial Guard is an elite army with the best equipment the imperium is capable of mass producing so they are not exactly a codex for heavy stubbers and auto-weapons.

[Kirsten]

yeah I'd love a unit of veterans with stubbers. especially with Victoria Miniatures new guns

[Haighus]

The Heavy Stubber (like the Autogun) is considered a low tech "common" weapon, while Lasguns, Heavy Bolter,... are military grade. We will only see more heavy stubbers in "cultist" style codices like Genestealer cult, probably even underfunded PDF or various chaos or armed imperial cults (civillians or militia).
Despite being on the lower spectrum of stats, the Imperial Guard is an elite army with the best equipment the imperium is capable of mass producing so they are not exactly a codex for heavy stubbers and auto-weapons.

Well, apart from the Death Korps of Krieg (generally very well equipped regiments) and Guard tanks can take stubbers in large numbers. They already exist in the fluff, and are effective weapons. I think that without them being a standard option for Imperial vehicles I would agree with you though. They are heavily prevalent in Black Library, although that translates badly to the table-top a lot of the time.

I feel the Guard doesn't really have a snobbery about tech levels like that, but is more about effectiveness- lasguns are used over autoguns because they are more reliable in combat, not because they are more powerful for example. The Guard uses large numbers of autocannons, and uses grenade launchers and mortars and other simple, low-tech weaponry, so long as it works well.

Fluffwise, they also fill the SAW niche in squad weaponry that Guard options currently lack, which you would expect based on real militaries.

Kirsten, the Vic minis Bren guns are part of the reason I started this thread

[grimmas]

I think the Guard has to deal with what the munitorium give them. Lasguns are very much the best option but if they're not available the troops need guns. Like Haighus wrote earlier the number of Autogun equipped regiments is going to much fewer in comparison.

Interestingly during the Crusade there was a minimum standard for the basic weapons provided to human troops and levied units needed to attain that standard with whatever weapons they are equipped with. Of course that was 10000 yrs ago and before the Guard was actually formed, I just like the idea.

[YorkNecromancer]

In the HH Militia and Cults list (book 5), the HQ command squad can be up to ten guys, seven of which are bodyguards. Those bodyguards can all be equipped with Heavy Stubbers or Grenade Launchers, so it may not be possible to have the squad in 40K, but it's more than possible in 30K.

Also, their Heavy Weapon teams have the option for between 3 and 5 two-man Heavy Stubber teams, which are like the one-guy version, only they get twin-linked as well. So there's lots of opportunities for Heavy Stubbers in HH.

Not to mention, those Heavy Weapon teams are a Troops choice.

The Militia and Cults list is awesome.

[Haighus]

The Militia and Cults list is awesome.

It really is- I would like to make a Survivors of the Dark Age themed list with 3+ Svs and lots of S4 Lasrifles and S5 laslocks in Rhinos... Would be awesome. Like a Rogue Trader force brought into 7th Edition.

[Charon]

I feel the Guard doesn't really have a snobbery about tech levels like that, but is more about effectiveness- lasguns are used over autoguns because they are more reliable in combat, not because they are more powerful for example. The Guard uses large numbers of autocannons, and uses grenade launchers and mortars and other simple, low-tech weaponry, so long as it works well.

They actually have.
While Flak Armor does not seem to be very good it is better than sub-flak (Chaos Cultists, LatD) or well... nothing. And every imperial solider is AT least issued Flak armor. They do get the best equipment that is mass producable (on a 40k scale, so in the billions of units), reliable and sustainable.
"More powerful" does not mean "better stats". It could also mean "better rate of fire, easier to maintain, easier to get/carry/exchange ammunition (power pack vs solid amunition), more accurate,..." as the tabletop representation is an abstract. A Bolter does not only fire one round in the same time a battle tanks fires his ordnance.
If the guard uses "simpler low tech" it does just mean "this is still the best available option we can mass produce"

40k basically compares "elite" armies. You do not get to see "civillians" or huge cult armies on the battlefield, Just remember Necromunda and how hard it was to get your hands on, keep and maintain a Plasma gun.. or basically any special weapon. While the imperial guard in the tabletop is depicted as poor *******s and cannon fooder, they are all in all and compared to other humans excellently trained and equipped.

[Kirsten]

there is no reason at all why a guard army wouldn't be equipped with heavy stubbers.