White Dwarf - Should GW just retire it?

[Levitas]

I know we have covered WD before, but hoping to hit new ground outside of bashing it.

I picked up the Blood Angel adorned one as I was stuck waiting for my car to be repaired, and a GW was close by. Cringing at the price I paid it anyways, and knew exactly where my expectations were.

Quick blow by blow:

• Blood Angels release! yay for them, I dont play them though. But do go on..
• Oh more Blood Angels...skims semi interested over the authors explanations, begin to sigh a lot.
• Some Lord of the Rings stuff..skims...
• Some fantasy stuff...skims...
• Battle report featuring...Blood Angels..oh look they win. yay for them. Looks at army list selection and sighs some more.
• Painting tips..on painting blood angels! great.
• Modleing tips on..Blood Angels!..yawns..
• Contents of Death Company box..yadda yadda
• Some more Lord of the Rings stuff..
• More Blood Angel ads..
• Ends...checks cover price again..sighs. Knows that 98% of last hours consumption will be FREE on GWs site. Crys.

Ok, so its clearly on life support. Working in the design/print/marketing world I fully understand the challenges of the printed media. Web is huge and printed material has to work hard to be different (and yes, I can take the internet into the 'throne room' via iphone). So GW either has to drastically change White Dwarf, or put it out of its misery before it destroys any love we once had for it.

Save WD starts now...

• Stop with the new release focus. You emailed me and told me about Blood Angels, I freaking get it. Tell me something new for my $9 that I can't get for free from GW.com. Walk into any GW/game club and people play different things. So why focus so many pages to one army?

• Stop insulting us with lame battle reports and ignoring strong builds. Do your staff secretly play underground leaf blower type lists? I would wager they do. Let them have a real brawl and give us genuine tactical insight worth paying for.

• Be different to whats on your website. Its lazy and the team is capable of so much more, let them be creative - Not servitors.

I think that would be a start, but there is so much work to do i'd almost rather the funds go into new plastic crack. BUT for old times sake, I hope they do something. Maybe a game specific focus is whats needed and abandon the all-in-one approach? A slim-lined, creative, focused publication for the top 2 games. Much cheaper too. Collectors artwork, pullouts, scenarios, etc etc. I want to read about my hobby, is that so hard for them??

Any creative thoughts on how you would save the dwarf or re-invent it? Any other printed publications you think are a better example? maybe someone from GW will see them...

[DarkLink]

Though I don't read white dwarf at all, nor do I intend to, I think that they should start releasing more rules though it. If each issue has a couple of special mission scenarios or armylist expansions (new units, modifying rules for special factions, etc), I imagine it would attract more attention. All it has currently are a bunch of pictures and... well, I guess there are some articles about those pictures...

[fade_74]

Dude....get off it. I happen to like White Dwarf the way it is, and I bet I'm not the only one. I like the batreps that aren't power gamer oriented. I like to look at all the different new stuff. Even if it isn't about a game or army that I will never play. If you don't like those things....by all means.....DON'T BUY IT. lol If you think the magazine is crap....don't pick it up. If you are worried about the price...don't pay it. Whatever you do....you shouldn't go on the internet and ***** about it. If you really want something to do with all your extra time....and since you seem to know so much about publishing......go write your own magazine. Then you can put just what you want in it. Who knows....maybe I could even be your first subscriber! Or maybe I could just go on the internet and ***** about it......

[Levitas]

Dude....get off it. I happen to like White Dwarf the way it is, and I bet I'm not the only one. I like the batreps that aren't power gamer oriented. I like to look at all the different new stuff. Even if it isn't about a game or army that I will never play. If you don't like those things....by all means.....DON'T BUY IT. lol If you think the magazine is crap....don't pick it up. If you are worried about the price...don't pay it. Whatever you do....you shouldn't go on the internet and ***** about it. If you really want something to do with all your extra time....and since you seem to know so much about publishing......go write your own magazine. Then you can put just what you want in it. Who knows....maybe I could even be your first subscriber! Or maybe I could just go on the internet and ***** about it......

Really? Well thats cool you enjoy it. fair play to you.

I am by no means saying I know everything, or *****ing about it. In my opinion I think the magazine has declined out of complacency and misguided marketing. Just my veiw, as you have yours - fair?

I bought it in the hope it showed a glimmer of its superior past when it was so very much more than what it is today. I personally didnt find that, and I merely see that they are missing the point and potential of the publication. Its naive of me to think they wont advertise the new stuff, hey, i might be interested in that too. BUT when they over dose it and duplicate information what is free then how is that 1) helping them and 2) encouraging the gaming community to buy it?

I think they can do more with the battle reports. Tell me honestly that you think they are not a big advert every month for the latest release - and insultingly rigged?? I'd like to see more of the studios collection, conversion work and what they would take in their lists (not necessarily power orientated). Thier own tactics and thoughts on play etc.

The fact they have no competition means they can do what they like, how is that ever good?

Yeah, I know, dont buy it and dont wine about it - fair point - But wouldn't you rather say something and see it made better? If you read my post i was actually interested in seeing peoples ideas on improvement. Since GW hasnt done a readers survey in a while.

How do you know i am not a GW designer? How do i know you are not a GW designer? Do they view these forums?

[Gooball]

White dwarf should never EVER release rules, putting them online is still a mistake even as some people won't have access to them and therefore at a disadvantage. And just because all you play is 40k does not mean that fantasy and lord of the rings should be dropped from it. Hell it's named after a fantasy character even.
White dwarf is fine the way it is, Deal with it.
<More army expansions online would be cool>

[fade_74]

The reason they make the whole mag about the new army....is because of us....the gaming community. Everything is flavor of the month now. OMG Space marines roxors......OMG IG is the best.....OMG I love the spacewolves....OMG Tyranids are awesome!.....OMG blood angels! Everything is new and cool every 3 months and people buy the hell out of it. It is just the nature of the modern consumer. Look at all the stuff we buy from the computers to iphones to everything. Items are marketed in huge spurts. Remember how many Iphone commercials there were? Now they have tapered off a bit and something new will be out in a couple months and we will forget all about it. I see this as a valid marketing ploy. It works. As far as the batreps...yeah they are one sided. They admit that they play many practice games before the "real game". Of course they do that. If you have a new, cool product do you advertise the sucky parts of it? Nope....you glaze over those and show all the good stuff. I think the lists are kind of nice though. They sort of show off the good things about the new army, and avoid any serious cheese.
I do think they need to show more of the studio armies. I do think they need some new articles too. I think an article that focused on the gamers would be cool....Sort of like a "meet the geek" type thing.
The real reason I enjoy it.....is for the ideas. I have a creative streak about 1/2 inch long lol. I am a fair hand with a paintbrush, and a bonesaw for that matter. But I can't think up the things I do. I just replicate the things I see. I don't have a huge gaming community IRL so I look to gw, bols, and white dwarf to help me.

[murrburger]

WD sucks now, because it's just as crappy as every other gaming magazine out there. PC and console magazines are ridiculous now. Half of it is adverts, and the other half is the muppet writers reviewing (flogging) whatever new shiny peripheral or 'big hit' game is out, or coming out. (That also happens to have ads in the same magazine.) The console exclusive magazines have to be the worst offenders of all.

It's BS, and it makes me feel like a stupid ******* for spending money on it.

The only sections that I actually like are JJ's little blurb, and some of the painting/modeling stuff. I don't mind the Battle Reports, in all honesty, they're not horrible, but maybe it'd be nice if the game was out of three. Something to flesh the magazine out some more.

I would like to see more editorials, and more information from what goes on behind the scenes from the actual design staff, even if it's just something like a short interview. The reasoning behind new rules, new units, etc.

More painting stuff would be nice, it doesn't have to be GD quality, but just enough to get a nice looking army on the table.

The return of Chatper Approved would help things greatly. Even if there's no new units, and just new scenarios, famous campaigns, what have you.

I don't want GW to discuss the metagame, or anything competetive, though. That would be the final nail in the coffin for me. It shoud just be a hobby magazine, and not a gaming magazine.

[Levitas]

White dwarf should never EVER release rules, putting them online is still a mistake even as some people won't have access to them and therefore at a disadvantage. And just because all you play is 40k does not mean that fantasy and lord of the rings should be dropped from it. Hell it's named after a fantasy character even.
White dwarf is fine the way it is, Deal with it.
<More army expansions online would be cool>

Totally agree. I wasnt thinking rules either.

I think WD doesnt quite know where to sit with the Black library taking up background and story ,and the website covering the whole range of product and new release. Additions like planet strike and Missions cover the scenario/rules etc. So what should WD content be?

Can i just clarify that I am not bashing people that read it or gain enjoyment from its current incarnation. Or saying that they should drop coverage of games outside of 40k. I have an interest in those games too, but would like more substance from the articles. If you think WD is fine then cool. I do not, and out of an interest in web vs print simply seek how the magazine would move forward.

Ever read Edge magazine? it covers all platforms. I think edge magazine succeeds because it compliments the digital enjoyment and does not conflict with its own online presence. Compare that to WD and I dont see that synergy in place.

[ggg]

Not with Fade on this one.

I entirely agree with Levitas.

I buy the magazine as hobby tax. It is an overlong and bad catalogue update.

The price is ridiculous.

Every time I have discussed this with hobbyists in store the same view has been expressed. I do not know a single player in my area who thinks that WD is any good or would describe it as good value. The general consensus in England is that WD is rubbish. I also agree that it used to be better. Incidentally - there used to be store discount vouchers - wow - imagine that now? The typical line from the store manager "who's bought this month's WD?!" reply from any veterans' night "no." I would suggest, as harsh as it may sound, that those who like WD as it stands represent a fringe view.


The really damning factor is that WD should be a must buy purchase for all hobbyists. We are one of the most committed fan bases out there (perhaps outside of class A drug users) and this magazine is not universally purchased.


I attended a Nottingham open day a year or so ago. I put it to the then new WD editor that WD was no longer held in high regard, was bobbins and needed to change. It was quite funny when he insisted that it was not rigged so that the new army of the month won their battle report. He even denied that repeat games were held to ensure that there was the right result. Bearing in mind that the hard core of this hobby is made up geeks with above average intelligence, it was painful to hear such guff.

I then spoke with several other chaps from Nottingham and they asserted that WD would be taking a more hobby central view. There have been more painting articles but to date.... nothing.

It used to be quite prestigious to see a real army featured in the pages of WD but how rare it that? We do not see real armies featured in central articles. We should see real armies, real players, tactics and results - real community output showcased. - i.e. you get your army in say, Cambridge GW store window (there were 2 Golden Daemon statues on display next to armies in their cabinet ) - that guy should have a 2 page article with photos. Win the Big tournament? 2 page tactica and analysis - a small photo in the back pages is not enough. This would also encourage involvement with the GW stores - a loss leading engagement device not being utilised if ever there was one.

Drop standard bearer. I'm not interested in this month's Corporate Message.

Excellent question Levitas by the way, why have I never been surveyed about WD? Get some customer feed back.

It is not enough to say in a hobby such as this - 'don't buy it' when you don't like something re GW- as there is no competition in the production of the hobby I love. WD needs to change.

This needs to be addressed.

[Melissia]

I happen to like White Dwarf the way it is

And I think it's a piece of **** that only works to exemplify the marinewank inherent in the hobby instead of trying to create something more diverse. I could count the number of White Dwarf or Citadel Journals which even MENTION the Sisters of Battle with one hand. And the only one that had any REAL substance was over eight years ago. Even the Imperial Guard or Orks, my other two armies, rarely get anything in this catalog that masquerades as a magazine, only getting anything around the time of their codex releases and then WHOOP, it's back to fellating Calgar again.