Fantasy 8th Rumor Roundup

[Mars Ultor]

Movement: The need to change movement leaves me bewildered - but maybe randomness won't matter as much if there's no great advantage to charging (though we don't know that yet). Units SHOULD have to wheel to avoid each other and from getting mixed in and confused (i like how this worked on ROME: TOTAL WAR - oldie but goodie)

Percentages: I'm glad to see that. Anybody else tired of meeting Archaon in every little skirmish with Chaos?? I'd hate to be in charge of his social calendar. Saving the big boys for major engagements will be a good thing. In this I agree with Eldargal above - very well put - more core units and less Herohammer! Also, I never use minor characters like Engineers because they take up precious character slots. This way you can use more characters if you buy cheaper ones. More flexible. Sounds good to me.

It also sound like they might have taken a page from Warhammer historical with big units not breaking immediately. In Warhammer Ancient Battles I play imperial Romans, and you may slaughter the Celts, but if they outnumber you 2:1 then they "Fall Back in Good Order", basically a pushback but not broken. A very good rule - I mean, even Chaos knights should be overwhelmed by sheer numbers of gobos or clanrats or halberdiers, etc. (remember the fight with the Kurgan against the Scots in Highlander? Sure, he ran McCleod through, but the Scots jumped him and swept him away).

Objectives: I never liked this idea - a very 40K thing, not what you expect from many major medieval engagements. I mean, the hill might be part of the pre-battle skirmishing for high ground or for besieging a town, but the main objective was to wipe away the enemy. In most battles I remember, the losing army retreats or is scattered - they don't stay to hold a hillock. But, hey, if it encourages more Core units then I'm down with that.

Overall, I like it. Hope most of these prove true.

[RogueGeneralHunter]

"[*]Combat will be resolved in initiative order."

Except for charge situations I think this is already the rule. If this is an attempt to speed things up using a system that is like the way it's done in 40K then I don't think it will work. Perhaps I am in the minority here but I think the way fantasy currently handles charges is more realistic than the 40K method. (Assuming they give them an extra attack on the charge in 8th)
If they don't then why charge at all?

[Lord Azaghul]

"[*]Combat will be resolved in initiative order."

Except for charge situations I think this is already the rule. If this is an attempt to speed things up using a system that is like the way it's done in 40K then I don't think it will work. Perhaps I am in the minority here but I think the way fantasy currently handles charges is more realistic than the 40K method. (Assuming they give them an extra attack on the charge in 8th)
If they don't then why charge at all?

This rumour is a huge questionmark to me right now. It is supposedly one of the most 'confirmed' rumours, and I'm not sure I get it. It seems to remove charging as a factor in the game. Obvioulsy things like 'lances, and spears' will still recieve there S bonus, but it seems very annoying that my Dwarves or my O&G will NEVER get to strike before any elf or rat. It fact it kind of pisses me off its its true.
So at this point I have to assume that there is something I don't understand to all of this.

[Mars Ultor]

Really, I'm not sure that charging should have ever been that big a factor in combat, except for cavalry. I mean, it should give you some bonus, but all your guys going first and wiping out the first rank so that none of the enemy gets to attack back and they instantly lose is just plain unrealistic (even for a fantasy battle!). It has often been cited by ancient scholars or historians that combats devolved into something of a pushing/ hacking/stabbing match (think rugby with bladed weapons) that was not instantaneously resolved, and I've seen one quote that said that rarely was it that the side with more didn't push apart the other side. Therefore, I like the second rank attacking rule to represent guys stepping up to attack and fill in the gaps. I think that the chargers should go first, but each side should just attack with whatever is in their front rank + spear ranks (rules for spears and attacking characters being the same as present). It'd give everyone a chance to earn their points but quality still gets a chance to triumph.

As for the above concern about Dwarves, at least with random movement they may get more chances to charge if the enemy falls short more often. And maybe they'll get an Initiative bonus for charging. I'm sure the I2 armies would'nt complain.

[gcsmith]

random charge movements should have no place in fantasy, afterall its a wargame, one with a tournament setting, Placement will mean nothing if your charger 'stalls' I mean what is that all about, and some rules mention charging at double so ther must be some misunderstanding somewhere

[Lord Azaghul]

random charge movements should have no place in fantasy, afterall its a wargame, one with a tournament setting, Placement will mean nothing if your charger 'stalls' I mean what is that all about, and some rules mention charging at double so ther must be some misunderstanding somewhere

Actually I disagree. Randomness should be more of a factor in the game (especial over 'I win button' powergamers) I don't think charges would/should be consistant, even in a wargame. Troops trip over one another, the fervor of the charging troops were misjudges, the groud was riddle with pot holes...whatever. I like the random factor, it means that all my games will not longer be: I get one or two rounds of shooting out of my WM's, then I'm charged by everthing turn 2 or 3. If this is rumour is true it means players will be more cautious and more bold.

[RazorMind]

latest stuff on terrain makes it sound better and better for Wood Elves

Terrain can now cause casualties, D6 for each figure, a 1 means a wound.

Also, random magic items can be found in terrain/woodss. all rumors of course :-)

[mikethefish]

latest stuff on terrain makes it sound better and better for Wood Elves

Terrain can now cause casualties, D6 for each figure, a 1 means a wound.

Also, random magic items can be found in terrain/woodss. all rumors of course :-)

Actually I believe that Wood Elves are going to get hit a little bit hard with the new edition, thanks mainly to the Step Up rule. Most of how things like Wardancers are effective is that they slaughter all the models in the front line of a given unit, and then are free from reprisal. Now that the enemies in the 2nd rank can step up and attack, this might be hard for them to work properly.

Although I do think the "archers shoot in 2 ranks" is a good thing though. I guess it's kind of a mixed bag for the Wood Elves.

Personally it seems pretty much all good for my dwarves though, so I am happy there!

[gcsmith]

Most of what im reading says they are trying to remove skill from the game, Random this, random that. A dice roll for every little thing removes all skill as your actions mean nothing if u roll bad, Also how would walking though the woods cause damage?????? maybe for plate wearing Empire and chaos knights, but not for nimble high elves. Luckily or at least I hope most of these will prove false.

[Old_Paladin]

The thing is that more dice rolling actually lessen randomization.
As most 40K players know, elite armies with little dice rolls either win big or lose big, while hoard armies tend to keep the middle ground.
If you're only rolling 5 dice for the number of attacks, one or two bad rolls is a hard blow. If you're rolling 15 attacks things even out and even a few poor rolls isn't the end of the fight.
So the argument that more dice means less skill is actually the opposite; more dice allows the trends to be applied more constantly meaning skill become more of a factor; not dumb luck.


It will also depend on the situation: assuming the rumors are true and you get M+1d6 charge range (thats an average of 7-8 for human type infantry, but up to 10).
If, near the end of the game, you have one infantry block that must charge to win the game and the enemy is ~9 inches away; then yes, the game will be decided by random luck. But if you put yourself in such a position, it was your own skill at fault.

If however you're looking to get off 3 or 4 charges midgame, you know that you shouldn't attempt them at long range and if the bulk of the enemy army is ~8 inches away, the majority of your force is going to make it in.